Really need help/ trains of thought on my religious/spiritual beliefs. Open to anything.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by placidity44, Jun 12, 2015.

  1. placidity44 macrumors 6502

    placidity44

    Joined:
    May 20, 2015
    #1
    First off I want this thread to be very tolerant of others and peaceful. No belittling others beliefs whatever that may be. Constructive thoughts and feelings. As some background I was baptized Catholic and wasn't a regular churchgoer as a youngster/nor am I now. I was petrified from a youngster to a few years ago about the threat of eternal hellfire/torture. I took a religious studies class about all of the different religions and beliefs and followed science as well.

    I had studied Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and other minor religions. I had also followed science extremely close. Not to infringe or belittle anyones beliefs i'm just stating how I feel and I welcome everyone from all walks of life to insight me with their thoughts or add on to what i'm saying. I just found the bible to be very inconsistent and I couldn't buy into a lot of it. I believe earth was created long after the universe...universe being around 13.82 billion years old and earth being around 4.54 billion according to science. Humans can't even begin to comprehend how big the universe is. The universe is flat which allows for a near infinite universe. I just find it extremely hard to believe that there's not a ton of life on other planets. Some of which are billions of years more advanced than us and some that are behind us. I find it hard to believe that a deity sent Jesus to die for our sins and save us...out of the entire universe why planet earth? Maybe earth is the only planet with life in the universe but I just can't buy it 100%. I don't believe in miracles, etc.

    Eternal hellfire to me is a crazy concept. Why would a god create man with freewill when they didn't exist and know nothing before...no pain, no suffering, no thought, nirvana and either give them eternal life if they had faith or sentence them to eternal damnation for not. Sounds very egotistical to me like he should be worshipped and obeyed, etc. Like the universe is just a show of how powerful he is. In religious studies I was taught that hell was just seperation from god. From my reading of the bible I had taken from it that sinners and people who do evil will fade into nonexistence. "By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return." Why would a loving compassionate god allow eternal damnation when he's all about forgiveness...only if you have faith.

    I believe there's nothing you can do in a lifetime that warrants eternal damnation...I can understand if people of faith go to heaven and sinners fade into nonexistence but I can't buy into sinners suffer forever and ever. Even hitler as horrific of things he'd done doesn't deserve to never be at peace. He should be punished for what he has done but eventually reunite with god as a changed better compassionate man. Or return to nonexistence. A lot of people think of hell as a metaphor but why push it as literal? Is it to scare people in to believing? To incite fear? To control people?

    If god was proven tomorrow I would serve him/her/it forever and ever. If god was disproved tomorrow and there was no creator i'd still be the absolute best compassionate/tolerant/loving person I could possibly be. Even if I fade into nothing I will be the best person i'm capable of being because it's what feels right in my heart. I look at the world with all of the suffering and pain and unfairness and I just can't believe that if a deity were to be that they wouldn't intervene. Why would a child get cancer and die painfully, why would people of evil be in power and abuse it, why are innocent people hungry, why is there murder, war, etc over religious ideologies and differences. I just can't believe that a god would let that happen. People tell me i've lost my way because I can't have faith. They think i'm less of a person. Maybe burning in hell forever because in my mind I just can't buy into it. They think I need to get educated and broaden my horizons and find Christ. I'm going absolutely crazy thinking about it.

    If someone were to survive cancer someone would say it was the prayers, yet if they die they'll say it was gods plan? I just don't understand. Is it a way for people to come to terms with things they can't control and find comfort? Is it just to scary to believe that maybe there's something after and maybe there's not? I look at the big bang and ask who/what caused that. I find it hard to believe that the universe was here the entire time and the big bang happened without some sort of creator...but then I question how'd the creator get there, etc. Maybe the universe was always here it was just empty space...maybe the creator was always there and created it...but I don't believe the creator intervenes.

    I look at the beauty of the universe, I look at flowers that are there for beauty, I look at the symmetry of my face, life is a gift..even with all the ups and downs. It is extremely hard for life such as ours to take place. There's estimated to be 20-25 thousand protein genes in humans...that's nuts! I personally do believe in a creator of some shape/form and I really hope there is something reminiscent to heaven but the thought of forever and ever and ever and ever is sort of overwhelming for me. Never ending...even with pure bliss wouldn't you get bored after a quintillion years craving some sort of stressor? Wouldn't you wonder what pain felt like after so long? You could travel the entire universe and know everything...then what?

    The nonexistence thing is scary as well. Never see family/pets again...that's hard to cope with. It'd be like it was in the 1800's...no recollection, feelings, pain, suffering, happiness....nothing. You wouldn't be aware of it so you wouldn't miss anything but it's still a difficult thought. Either way to me it's scary.

    I personally think that there's a creator and some type of peaceful afterlife because I have to...It'd be difficult for me if I didn't think that...but it's not a hundred percent. It's like 60-40 of believing in something and believing in nothing...

    I really wish I had 100% faith and didn't question things so much. It'd be so peaceful to fully buy into anything to give you some sort of peace throughout your life. You'd die knowing you'd see your loved ones again and if there was nothing you wouldn't know any better...and if there was something you'd be in absolute bliss. I know it's not good but the only thing I envy in other people is faith. Really wish I could have it even if its false.

    Again I meant absolutely no disrespect or intentional anything toward anybody on this forum. I welcome everybody from all walks and beliefs of life to give me their 2 cents. If you're christian/muslim/buddhist/hindu/agnostic/whatever I'd really like to hear from you. Maybe you have a different train of thought that I don't see. I'm really just looking for guidance. I believe if there is something after that it's much more due to how you are as a person than faith. Regardless i'm going to strive to be a better man every single day of my life and do good...because it's the right thing to do regardless and it makes me feel better about myself. If I was to spend an eternity in hellfire no matter what i'd still be a good person because it's right.

    I believe in tolerance and acceptance no matter what your walk in life. Age/Race/Gender/Sex/Sexual Orientation/Religious views...if you're good to me i'll be good to you..if you're bad to me i'll still be good to you. I just want peace and acceptance and it hurts me because I can't have 100 percent faith that i'm a horrible horrible person and I don't deserve anything...that's the way a lot of people make me feel. Anyway please keep this constructive and please don't make fun of anybody for their beliefs. I'm really sorry if I offended anybody that was in no way my intention.
     
  2. Meister, Jun 13, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015

    Meister Suspended

    Meister

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2013
  3. Ledgem macrumors 65816

    Ledgem

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2008
    Location:
    Hawaii, USA
    #3
    I read your entire post. In almost all cases where you posed a question, I thought that the answer was "yes." So we're probably thinking similarly about most of these religious topics. I also noted that you didn't list Judaism among any of the religions you've looked over. Judaism is not "Christianity beta," the relationship to God is quite different (at least compared to modern, Christ-obsessed Christianity), and some of the less mainstream beliefs (Kabbalah) might be of interest to you.

    That said, this is the reason I wanted to reply:

    You sound like an insightful person who is, at the very least, trying to be as good a person as can be and to make the world a better place. That's a lot more than most people do. The question of acceptance is a tough one that adopting another religion may not fix. If your family is deeply religious and intolerant toward other beliefs (including non-belief), and/or if you live in a deeply religious community, then you will likely be shunned and looked down upon for not going along with everyone else. It's a sad trend that isn't limited to Christianity.

    If that's your scenario, then the only thing you can really do is distance yourself from it. That could be physically, or mentally. The peace and acceptance you seek would need to come from within, unless you can find other like-minded (or just open-minded) people. If you can believe in another faith with a conviction that is strong enough then it may dull the sting of being rejected by those around you and those you love, but you'd probably need to venture into zealot territory to truly not care for their opinions anymore. Replacing your lack of belief with another non-Christian belief probably isn't going to make you feel better.

    Hang in there.
     
  4. placidity44 thread starter macrumors 6502

    placidity44

    Joined:
    May 20, 2015
    #4
    Thank you very much Ledgem. I think the inner peace does come from within. I may not be in control with what I fully think or believe but I am in control with how I act as a person and treat other people. Why worry about something I can't control. Really helpful i'm sorry my post was so long I just needed some help. Made my day thank you very much. Have a great day Ledgem.
     
  5. snberk103 macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Location:
    An Island in the Salish Sea
    #5
    I think you are headed down the right track. It may be confusing at the moment, but personally I like your motives.

    Personally - I don't believe one needs to be "religious" to find inner peace. If you choose to be "spiritual" then it doesn't have to be one of the big 3 (Abrahamic) religions. However, my faith is connected to Judaism so my comments will be coloured by that. I don't take the Bible literally, but prefer to see it as text written by people who were feeling connected to God at that time. And as much as they may felt connected to God, they were also writing it as humans of that era with the flaws common to people. With that said... There are two thoughts that might help.

    1) The prophet Micah said one should Do Justly, Love Mercy, And Walk Humbly With Your God. I believe the order of the list is important. The first two items have nothing to do with religion - they are prescriptions on how to be a good person. And then, after you have become a 'good person', you should bring God into your life... Your God. Not my God, not someone else's God, but your God... the one who speaks to you.

    2) The second thought needs a bit of background explained. In traditional Judaism the highest calling is to be able to study the Torah (Old Testament, roughly speaking) full time. To read it, to learn from the Rabbis - both current and dead, to debate what it means with your fellow students and the Rabbis (just the current ones :)). Think about Fiddler On The Roof - If he was a "Rich Man" he would study the Torah from dawn to dusk. And, after spending a life time of studying you will have barely scratched surface of understanding the wisdom contained in the Torah. One of the greatest and most revered scholars of the Torah (and Talmud - the written explanations of what the Torah means) was Hillel who lived n the 1st century BCE. That's the background. Now the very short parable.

    A gentile wanted to convert to Judaism, but would only do so if the Rabbi could teach him the Torah while standing one foot. He went to various Rabbis who laughed him out of their studies, saying that they had been studying all their lives and still did not truly know the Torah. Undaunted this fellow sought out Hillel and asked the scholar to teach him the Torah while he, the gentile, stood on one foot. Hillel thought for a minute or two, then commanded the fellow to stand on one foot. Then he said "What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation of this--go and study it!"

    Note the subtle but important difference between this version of the 'Golden Rule' and the one in the New Testament.

    ===

    I don't know if this will help you in any way, but these two philosophies help me, and have given me rock solid foundation for my life that is probably more spiritual than religious technically.
     
  6. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
  7. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2010
    #7
    Your meditation made me think of a famous passage in Chapter 31 of Huckleberry Finn.

    http://genius.com/Mark-twain-the-adventures-of-huckleberry-finn-chap-31-annotated

    It is a fact that we all have to make ethical choices, and, in this passage, we can see that one of those choices is that of thinking about it more deeply in the first place. The prescriptive version of religion that Huck was taught was not sufficient to deal with complex ethical dilemmas.

    --

    The other thought that I had is that sometimes a little too much time can be spent ruminating on the same issues. Sometimes it helps to spend more time walking.

    http://www.americantrails.org/quotes4.html#Walking
     
  8. ElectronGuru, Jun 17, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2015

    ElectronGuru macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2013
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    #8
    Religion is a tricky subject. I grew up with fire and brimstone Catholicism and have found my peace via context. Here are a few examples...

    For most human development, we havn't known why things happen. And many of these things have been dangerous. Religion fills the gaps, helping us to feel safer. And in some cases, actually be safer. Science has been gradually usurping this role for hundreds of years.

    Most people are purpose event focused. If something happens, it may or may not be a coincidence. But most people attribute the reason for it to a particular purpose. Combined with our tendency to anthropomorphize, we can attribute events/situations to a higher power, a consciousness. Religions tap into this and give us a universal why.

    Like any organization or organism, the first goal is survival. Religions are organizations and successful organizations grow and reproduce. So successful religions tend to share traits like anti competitiveness (thou shalt have no god before me), have lots of children (be fruitful and multiply), and assimilate new populations (be a missionary/evangelical).

    Before the wheel and ship, getting even a 100 miles was a major investment. Each region of the world developed its own family of religions, which eventually consolidated into a single monopoly religion. In the absence of other options, followers of these religious monopolies grew supremely confident in the righteousness of their beliefs. As transportation technology started shrinking the world, these disconnected all powerful organizations started being exposed to each other (see: crusades). Fully exposed geographically, the worlds supreme religions are now competing to be the worlds only religion.

    As a 'consumer' of religion, you now have a rich marketplace of choices. But those choices are also battling for survival. So try not to get caught up in other people's reasons. Find your own.
     
  9. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

    A.Goldberg

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Location:
    Boston
    #9
    These are pretty much my thoughts exactly. It wasn't until very recently that mankind became disconnected from nature. It wasn't too long ago when the sun went down it was dark out aside from maybe a candle or two- no lights, no electricity. If you got sick, you very well might die. If the crops died, you starved. Education was very limited and people didn't really travel. Science wasn't what it is today. The only things you learned you learned from the people around you, and they learned from what they were told. The concept of no solid science or technology, and how much those things change our outlook on life is a foreign concept to us.

    To the OP, religion can be considered a means to spirituality, which seems to be what you seek. Religion is not the only way though. Practicing spiritual principals/virtues (aka action) I believe the way to living a spiritual life. Things like compassion, honesty, acceptance, gratitude, patience, mindfulness, yoga, other forms of exercise, meditation, volunteering, giving to charity, forgiveness, openness, and focusing on the present are all things I try to do to live a better life. Religion may suggest these same ideas, but in a much more complex way, often with many seemingly arbitrary rules and laws, not to mention ridiculous stories.

    Like @Snburke103, I was raised in a Jewish family. My parents identify as conservative Jews- despite the name it is the middle of the road when it comes to how strictly you interpret things, with orthodox being the most strict and reform being the most liberal sects, if we're talking about the most common sects. I use the religious knowledge as a source of how to live my life, but I don't live the book. Years of Hebrew day school is enough to drive most people away from religion. I see the torah/bible as more of metaphorical story rather than absolute fact. I have a scientific mind and I feel Judaism in some ways complements that nicely. Some religions spend a lot of time defining who and what God is, where Judaism concedes we don't know and that we can't know. I leave my conception of God at that. Afterlife, maybe, who knows, let's instead focus on the present. One of the big themes of Judaism is that the Messiah will come to rebuild the temple, have the exiles return, rid the word of wickness, etc. I don't believe in a Messiah coming to make the world perfect, but I do believe this is a metaphor that to make the world perfect, or at least closer towards perfection, we have to rebuild ourselves an make ourselves better people. One rabbi once told me the purpose of religion is to basically to "be a good person and do good things".

    I celebrate holidays with my family and friends, I go to high holy day services, once in a blue moon I get dragged into go to Shabbat service or something. I don't eat kosher, I don't wear a kippah (yarmulke), I don't wear a tallit katan (the undershirt with the frays), I don't dress in a black suit with a black hat, and I always "work" on Saturdays. I just try and live my life as a good person. Faith is faith. If you believe in every supernatural feature of the bible, I don't believe that makes you any better of a person. Ultimately, how you think and act determines the person that you are, not what stories you believe are true or who or what, if anything, you worship.
     
  10. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    #10
    I'm perfectly content with the fact that all of us living will never know about the afterlife until death.
     
  11. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    República Cascadia
    #11
    Just think, we'll live (hopefully) 70-80 years but we'll be dead forever. However, every molecule and atom in our bodies will be recycled into something else, and then something else again. So in a manner of thinking, we will live forever.

    Also, God is like an onion: a being of many layers.
     
  12. Dj64Mk7 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    #12
    Hello to all! If I may, I'd be very interested in joining this discussion.

    Some backstory: I am an almost-16-year-old who is going to be confirmed into the Catholic church this October. My girlfriend was confirmed to the Catholic church two weeks ago tomorrow. My dad was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school for all 12 years. My mom was raised Lutheran, went through the public school system, and converted to Catholicism when she married my dad.

    I was reading some of the replies to this thread, and I would love to join the conversation here. I realize that I may not fit right with everyone here, but I am looking to challenge and defend my beliefs, so that I can be a better Catholic, as well as developing good skills for debating.

    Since I am only almost-16 and am soon-to--be-confirmed, I respectfully ask that you not push me too far. I have been through a lot of stuff in the past 2 or 3 years, and, if any cares, I would love to contribute to the debate here.

    Thank you for accepting me.

    EDIT: I know this may not sit well with everyone, but my whole existence this day is truly a miracle. If someone is curious what I mean, I will willingly share my story.
     
  13. snberk103 macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Location:
    An Island in the Salish Sea
    #13
    Welcome! I am willing to debate and to challenge your beliefs...and vice versa. But beware of danger - to have your faith challenged implies that they may weakened or you may lose your faith entirely. Sometimes having a blind faith can be comforting... :)

    And... aren't all births miraculous? The sheer random chance that those two people who became parents end up meeting. The random chance of mutations in the DNA through millions of years and then their final combination into you and to me. That is truly a miracle in my eyes.
     
  14. Dj64Mk7, Jun 20, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2015

    Dj64Mk7 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    #14
    Well yes, but mine is truly a miracle. If you want to know why, please PM me as it's really personal.
     
  15. snberk103 macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Location:
    An Island in the Salish Sea
    #15
    With respect - you brought up your birth publicly and if you want to share that's great. But I won't be PMing you for the details. If you don't want to share, that's fine and I won't bring it up again. I believe that these public forums exist for public debate and that's why I (sometimes) spend time here.

    Publicly - I will state that I believe all births are miraculous. Some just have needed more random chance and good fortune than others.
     
  16. Dj64Mk7 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    #16
    I appreciate the respect. Essentially, it boils down to this: I was born in '99 at 24 weeks of age. At birth, I weighed 1lb,9oz and dropped to 1lb,2oz soon after. The doctors didn't know if I was going to make it that first night, so I was baptized then and there, at 12am in the morning. I was in the NICU for the first 5 months of my life. Day in and day out, everyone was praying for me, especially at my church. I've had rough times since then, but its thanks to God that I'm even sharing this with you today.

    If anyone has any questions about anything and everything, please ask (I really like answering questions.)
     
  17. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #17
    Nothing to do with access to advanced medical facilities, then?
    And what about all the premature babies who don't make it? Does your god not care enough about them?
     
  18. snberk103 macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Location:
    An Island in the Salish Sea
    #18
    @Dj64Mk7: I would have been a little less blunt than skunk, but they do bring up an interesting (and often debated) point.

    Do you believe that the praying done on your behalf was somehow 'different' than the praying that was offered up for someone whose family was not as fortunate as your family was? I understand that, considering the circumstances, you feel that your birth was somehow special... and it was. But I'm not convinced that it was particularly because of the praying. Only because I know that bad things can happen too, despite very fervent and heart-felt praying.
     
  19. Dj64Mk7, Jun 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2015

    Dj64Mk7 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    #19
    From my point of view, God is the creator. He has a plan for everyone. It just so happened that I was born that day; it's a true miracle. As for the babies that don't make it, God has a plan. No one knows what that plan is, but I look at it like this: God has a plan for everyone, and we have to have complete faith that He knows best.

    I'm not suggesting that I'm different from anyone else. Like with @skunk I can only suggest it's a matter of His plan for each and every one of us. It's really a matter of fate that my parents were in the right place at the right time. I also keep in mind that everything happens for a reason, which is something I've heard from many non-believers as well. My faith goes deeper than that. Whenever I pray about something, I ask for it to pass only if it's in His will. This life isn't about what I want or what you want, but rather it's about fulfilling our purpose here on this earth.

    For instance, I don't view death as an end. Surely, the body is no longer physically around, but the soul and heart live on forever. When God decides my purpose on this earth is fulfilled, I know that there is something better; a truly perfect life in the Kingdom of God. Death is not an end, but rather a sacred beginning of a new life, a perfect life, united with the Trinity.
     
  20. snberk103 macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Location:
    An Island in the Salish Sea
    #20
    How well scripted is that plan? I mean... If He/She/It had a plan for you to be born, does that plan also script out everything that happens to you - and everything that you do - after your birth? Or... does the plan simply include that you are born because you have the potential to do 'something' that He/She/It needs done, but after you're born your 'free will' then dictates what you do with your life and whether or not you work towards the plan or not.

    Personally - I tend very much towards the 'free will' side of things. I don't believe God micro-manages the details. We - as humans - have been given free will and we need to make the best of the opportunities around. Otherwise, what's the point of God as a Judge? I will, reluctantly, accept that God may have on occasion 'touched' certain individuals who were instructed to remind people that their actions towards their fellow people on earth is important. However, determining who has truly been 'touched' by God and who is simply delusional is a challenge.
     
  21. Dj64Mk7 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2013
    #21
    God is the Creator. He knows everything, and we have to have faith and courage that His plan is the right one.

    The beauty of life is that God gave us the gift of free will. He calls each and every one of us, but we have a choice whether to accept or reject his call. Believe it or not, it's part of God's plan that some people stray away. For example, I had a period a few years ago where I wanted nothing to do with the church. Coincidence or not, my life took a downturn soon after. About 6 months after that, I attended a NET (National Evangelization Team) retreat at a local area church, which didn't really do anything for me spiritually. Although I did meet the girl of my dreams - more on that later. More recently, I attended a confirmation retreat, and that really began to open my eyes to the miracles God can do, all through the power of prayer (with the Blessed Sacrament present). A few weeks after that, I was admitted for inpatient at a local hospital. That didn't help me too much, except for showing the power of prayer. I had been praying for something miraculous to happen and, lo and behold, it happened. I got a text from one of my friends saying she had feelings for me (5/10/15). She is really the best girlfriend anyone could ever ask for. Over the last month and a half or so, she has inspired me to strengthen my relationship with God, which actually benefits the both of us.

    I have been battling with major depression for almost a year now. Yesterday, a day I spent entirely with my girlfriend, I experienced the first genuine happiness I have in over a year. Thanks be to God!

    PS. Everyone in the world is absolutely amazing!
     
  22. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #22
    Does he have a plan for all the naturally-aborted foetuses too?


    How can that be? The Trinity was only invented in the fourth century.
     
  23. snberk103 macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Location:
    An Island in the Salish Sea
    #23
    Ok... if we are going to debate this it would be helpful if you got away from the script that you've learned in NET and thought about some of the questions I raised. And... personal anecdotes aren't that helpful. I also met a wonderful 'girl' recently, and she has also been helping me find happiness after a couple of the absolute worst years of my life. It was not because of 'prayer' or belief in JC. It was through my own hard work at putting my life back together, imho.

    So... you are saying, if I understand, that God has a plan - but that straying from that plan is also part of the plan? Is that accurate?

    I would be interested to hear your thoughts about prayers that produce the hoped for outcomes.

    At this point I am just probing to see where on the spectrum your beliefs are situated.

    Here's interesting theological question. I'm sharing this because I'm asking you to share - it is only fair. It is a question that I'm actually wrestling with personally.

    For argument's sake let's say you end up falling in love with your girlfriend and marrying her. You have 20 years of pure happiness and love. You vow that you will love her and only her, and you meant it. Then she is taken away from you.... accident, sickness, whatever. Just bad luck. Before she goes you tell her that you will meet her in "heaven". (I put that in quotes because at the moment I want to use shorthand for 'the afterlife' without getting into a debate just now about whether "heaven" exists". Let's just say for now the afterlife exists and leave the definition for later, OK?) A few years later you meet another woman and you fall in love again. Fall in love as much as with your first wife. Oops. How does it work in heaven now? When all 3 of you have eventually died do they share you in heaven? Or do you split into two separate existences and in parallel tracks spend time with each? All you know for sure, here on earth, is that it will not be "heaven" for you if you had to give one of your loves up once you reach the afterlife. Assuming that we all make it to heaven of course....
     
  24. Meister Suspended

    Meister

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2013
    #24
    I recommend you take a trip to an authentic catholic monastery and talk to the monks there (I recommend Assisi in Italy).
    Ask them what they do all day long and you might be surprised to hear the answer.

    There is a huge difference between priests, ministers and other church employees and monks and nuns, who have given up everything and dedicated their entire existence to their faith.
     
  25. sim667 macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    #25
    I've got maybe 2 or 3 rules I live my life to, and none of those have been put into my head by others peoples desperation to believe in an afterlife to cure their fear of what happens when they die..... Which realistically is all that religion is.
     

Share This Page