RELIGION: Christians, serious question.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jake.f, Sep 30, 2009.

  1. jake.f macrumors 6502

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    #1
    How does "god" explain dinosaur remains and fossils?
    Just curious.
     
  2. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    #3
  3. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #4
    No they are joking.

    Unfortunately these people aren't.


    edit: I feel guilty even linking to that intellectually dishonest website.
     
  4. iBlue macrumors Core

    iBlue

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    #5
    It's hard to tell sometimes.
     
  5. johnrs macrumors 6502a

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    #6
    :eek: Not sure what to say really... So you see some pictures in the bible of Adam standing near a tree and there is some sort of deer in the background, Oh and there is Eve playing with a baby T-Rex :rolleyes:

    If god made man in his own image (perfect) why did he put temptation in our way. Is that not entrapment??? more to the point why did he feel the need to do that..

    Also Adam and Eve have three children, Cain, Abel and Seth, as well as other sons and daughters (not quite 3 children then. info taken from wiki). so where did the rest of the man come from..?? I dont want to even think on that one..

    The only time man and dinosaur have lived together is in the Flintstones :D
     
  6. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #7
  7. Shivetya macrumors 65816

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    #8
    How would a day go by on MacRumors without a Christian bash thread, veiled or not.
     
  8. The Californian macrumors 68040

    The Californian

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    #9
    Here's the best explanation I can give, and honestly ... if any other "Christian" gives a more specific answer I would say they're just speculating.

    We don't know. Just in the same way that proponents of the "Big Bang Theory" can't give a clear explanation of what exactly happened at the "Big Bang" or how something came from nothing, none of us "Christians" can give an informed answer because simply, we weren't there.

    There is speculation that in Job 40:15-24 there is a description of a dinosaur, but as I said ... It's speculation. Sadly, the Bible isn't a picture book so we can't see what exactly they saw.

    The Bible says that God created everything, then he created man, and then the rest of the story happened. While the Bible describes "7 Days" the literal interpretation of 7 days is up for debate. In my eyes God could have done it all in less than a blink, or billions of years. With the definition of eternity being "a state to which time has no application; timelessness." and it being believe that Gods existence is in "Eternity" who is to say what form of time model He used.

    My explanation of the aging we see through rocks and soil and fossils would be "If God can create Adam and Eve as full grown adults, why can't He create the Earth the same way with aged characteristics?".

    Ultimately it has to do with faith. Whether it be in creation or Big Bang, both require faith. Faith is defined as "A strong belief or confidence in something that can not be sensed". Sense would be "Hearing, Seeing, Feeling, Tasting, or Smelling", and when it comes to creation ... we don't have any of those things for sure ... When it comes to Big Bang, it's the same thing, we just simply don't know, and in all honesty ... If we could completely figure out God ... How great would He be?

    That's my incredibly long explanation that only touches lightly on what your question was, but ultimately ... that's the deepest explanation anyone can give you honestly.
     
  9. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #10
    And over the top at the same time :). As iBlue said it's hard to distinguish what creationists believe from parody.

    Go on then. Put the christian basher in his place. Did dinosaurs and humans live together? Is the world 6000 years old? Or are these anachronistic christian beliefs that the majority of modern christians jettisoned in favour of science.

    Although in the case of the big bang we can see and hear it. That's what we use radiotelescopes for. The big bang theory came out of the evidence. And as you point out such evidence doesn't require faith.
     
  10. MBHockey macrumors 68040

    MBHockey

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    #11
    Yeah, but that's the whole trick. Convince people into thinking they are bad for not blindly believing something by giving it a cute name like "faith" and making it the crux of the religion. It's actually quite brilliant because by its very definition it can't be disproved. It's just shocking that so many people don't see through it.

    People can have whatever beliefs they want, but when it flies in the face of actual evidence it really reveals how ignorant most religious people are.
     
  11. The Californian macrumors 68040

    The Californian

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    #12
    There's a very big difference between what and how. Who's to say that God didn't cause the Big Bang and all the evidence we see of a "Big Bang" isn't simply evidence of what happened after God began creation? We simply don't know.
     
  12. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    #13
    But we do know it all happened a long, long, long, long time before us [humans], Earth, and most other things existed.

    Didn't god slap it all together in 7 days?
     
  13. The Californian macrumors 68040

    The Californian

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    #14
    I couldn't agree more, those whom ignore facts are nothing but ignorant. At the same time, there are a lot of people that would love to place the word "evidence" on something that is mere speculation, or on something that doesn't exactly prove the entirety of their theory, see my above post.
     
  14. djellison macrumors 68020

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    #15
    The remnants of the big bang can be both heard (via the cosmic microwave background radiation) and seen (via mapping the intensity of that radiation)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background_radiation Furthermore the conditions of the big bang can be replicated in particle accelerator facilities. We can look back, literally, in time and observe astronomical phenomenon that are almost the entire way back to the moment of the big bang - http://www.universetoday.com/2009/04/27/most-distant-object-ever-seen/

    If you want to go to the theological place where any and all evidence for a geological and biological history of the Earth was 'put' there by a 'God' then the discussion is over. There is no debate to be had beyond that point. That's just blind faith and is neither debatable or defensible.

    It's like going to the greatest theatrical production of all time, and sitting there with a woolly hat pulled over your eyes and your fingers in your ears. You miss everything -and you look kind of silly.
     
  15. The Californian macrumors 68040

    The Californian

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    #16
    I hope that gives a little insight as to my point of view. I agree, it all happened a long, long, long, long time before us, but while discussing something in the concept of "eternity" our concept of time would be relative.
     
  16. iBlue macrumors Core

    iBlue

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    #17
    (curious) Do you know if something of that nature has ever been described in the bible? I don't mean Genesis because that seems to focus on earth, though I imagine that would be the place to talk about it. Is there any clear reference to other planets? Surely god isn't just an earth god.
     
  17. The Californian macrumors 68040

    The Californian

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    #18
    I completely agree, but I have a hard time looking at all of that evidence ( which believe me, I have thoroughly read many times ) and eliminate the possibility that an intelligent designer had something to do with it.
     
  18. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #19
    But now you're shifting the goalposts. My post was in reply to your equating of faith in god with faith in the big bang. This is false. The big bang theory came out of tangible evidence first and foremost which satisfies your own hearing and seeing criteria for not being faith.

    As you rightly point out a god or gods could have created the big bang. However there is absolutely no evidence to suggest a christian god did this over any other manner of gods or even an elephant. There is dogma however which is a terribly unreliable source of facts. Shoehorning such a criteria as a god into the big bang is purely unnecessary speculation. It just isn't required to explain anything. Nor is it even a scientifically testable hypothesis.
     
  19. Jaffa Cake macrumors Core

    Jaffa Cake

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    #20
    I think it was six, and then She had the Sunday off. Maybe did a bit of gardening or something.
     
  20. The Californian macrumors 68040

    The Californian

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    #21
    That's a very good question, and a question I have talked much with people who get into the whole possibility of alien life discussion. People are quick to say "The Bible doesn't talk about aliens therefore they don't exist", well ... The Bible doesn't talk about Hefewizen beer, but I sure am enjoying one at that moment. For someone to assume that an exclusion of information is proof for non-existance is simply idiotic.

    To specifically answer your question, the Bible does refer to The Sun and the fact that the Earth orbits it ( which is completely contrary to the beliefs of the time ) and some planets. But I would venture to say that the information that is of true importance to us is provided in the Bible, and while I would have loved more information ... we got what we truly need, and a little of what we want, but not the in depth explanation of the cosmos that I would love.
     
  21. MBHockey macrumors 68040

    MBHockey

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    #22
    What kind of proof do you want for the big bang? A video of it happening?

    Why is the bar for evidence set so much higher for religious people when it comes to things contrary to their faith, but they have no trouble blindly believing ridiculous tales from an antiquated text?

    Do you really think your idea of God kick starting the big bang isn't speculation?
     
  22. arkitect macrumors 601

    arkitect

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    #23
    It does? Would be interesting to know exactly where…

    Only mention I know of is Joshua and the sun standing still or somesuch bollocks.
     
  23. The Californian macrumors 68040

    The Californian

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    #24
    .Andi, I agree. Many Christians would sit here and try to battle you with facts and babble, but that's not me. All I can say is that you're absolutely correct that our scientific evidence does not prove a God, at the same time ... it does not disprove a God. Ultimately there will be no way to prove or disprove God, this is why we have this age old debate, but I choose to believe, and you choose not to. I completely respect your decision, and I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise.

    I'm not the typical "Christian" that grew up in church and believes everything that is shoveled into their gullet. I became a Christian at 14 after deeply searching this information myself. I am always open to converse about it, and even be proven wrong ... to be otherwise would be ignorance. At the same time, over a decade after choosing this path, I choose to believe what I believe until I am proven wrong .
     
  24. iBlue macrumors Core

    iBlue

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    #25
    Well I'm not a believer and it's based on much much more than exclusion of information, but I'm not up for delving into all that at the moment. I was curious about that so thanks for answering.
     

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