Religious Groups Challenge Calif. Transgender Law Over Privacy

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by lannister80, Dec 18, 2013.

  1. lannister80, Dec 18, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013

    lannister80 macrumors 6502

    lannister80

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    #1
    http://www.npr.org/2013/12/18/255185949/opponents-to-challenge-calif-school-act

    And, of course, here come the "concern trolls", pretending that their attempt to roll back this law is anything but anti-trans bigotry:

    When, of course, in reality:

     
  2. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #2
    Not naming any names, but the funny thing is that today a certain group of people want to fix laws by eradicating them, not addressing the flaws. If the law is too vague, then amend it and address the concerns.
     
  3. Alrescha macrumors 68020

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    #3
    Quite off the topic of this thread, but in general I think we have too many laws, and as a result we ignore most of them. I think our country would benefit immensely if, for an entire decade, our lawmakers had to implement their goals by removing (and only by removing) old laws.

    A.
     
  4. edk99 macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    I agree with the opposition. You should go to the bathroom that is meant for what is between your legs. Otherwise what is the point of having gender designated restrooms. Only other solution is to just have only uni-sex bathrooms.

    The next story you are going to hear is about a bunch of high school guys with dresses on hanging out in the women's locker room.
     
  5. lannister80 thread starter macrumors 6502

    lannister80

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    #5
    Why? A toilet can service any human's excretory needs.

    The point of gender-designated bathrooms is to feel comfortable doing what you need to do without people you may be attracted to, or who are attracted to you, watching/listening.

    The person in question is a girl in every way except that she has a penis. She deserves to be treated as the gender she identifies as, including using the bathroom she feels most comfortable in.

    They specifically address this in the article. You can't just toss on dress and use the girls' room. You have to genuinely be trans, dress that way every day, etc. There has never been an incident in the 8 years the school has been voluntarily doing it.

    It's very, VERY easy to spot and root out anyone who's abusing the system. Talk about the weakest slippery slope argument ever.
     
  6. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #6

    It never ceases to amaze me how those with so-called conservative values always seem to have deviant sexual behavior on their minds.
     
  7. HarryPot macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    I know I'm going to be hated here for saying it, but isn't that enough to make him a male?

    So, in favor of a very small minority, we must ditch the "feel comfortable" of the rest?
     
  8. NewbieCanada macrumors 68030

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    #8
    What really exposes the bull behind this is everyone knows that the people who are REALLY going to freak out sharing a bathroom with a MTF transgender person are NOT the girls, but the boys.

    But let's face it - the people behind this are hoping she gets beaten up. That's their REAL concern - that there are transgender people not getting bullied.
     
  9. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #9
    I'm not against transgenders and I'm against discrimination and bullying against them or anyone else. Being that said .... Nobody is talking about how the other students feel about this. Who is to say that girls won't feel uncomfortable with knowing someone with a penis is sharing their restroom? You simply can't force that comfort level or acceptance on others in such a private atmosphere as a restroom.
     
  10. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #10
    In case you still think LGBT teens don't need protection from some in society. You'd think the haters would be able to keep their hate consistent. :rolleyes:


    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/...orced-pathetic-dyke-to-use-the-boys-bathroom/
     
  11. lannister80 thread starter macrumors 6502

    lannister80

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    #11
    Not really. I mean, how often do you genital-check the men and women you interact with every day to make sure they're the biological sex they claim to be?

    But this person is identifying as a girl, feels like a girl, acts like a girl, etc. Why would girls worry about what another girl thinks in the bathroom?

    Imagine if this was a biologically-female person who just happened to have facial hair/looked like a trans person/biologically male. Would she not be allowed to use the girls' room either, even though she doesn't have a penis? Because the other girls would *perceive* her as someone who's trans?
     
  12. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #12

    If they're like most kids I know, they don't give two *****.
     
  13. MyMac1976 macrumors 6502

    MyMac1976

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    #13
  14. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #14
    lesbians - women's restroom
    gay - men's restroom
    male transgender pre-operative - men's room
    male transgender post operative - women's room
     
  15. iMikeT macrumors 68020

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    #15

    You have a lot to learn about gender identity.



    One could easily say the same thing about people with disabilities for example. Society can easily forego things that aid disabled people that enable them to "feel comfortable" while interacting with the rest of us.
     
  16. quagmire macrumors 603

    quagmire

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    #16
    Whose to say the girls will be uncomfortable with a lesbian using the woman's bathroom? Going to make the lesbian use the boys restroom?

    See how slippery slope arguments fail?
     
  17. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #17
    If people used the bathroom simply to use the bathroom without any residual drama, that'd be fine.

    ...but for a feminine looking guy wearing feminine clothing, and acting rather feminine because he considers himself female, walking into the boy's room will inevitably draw some harassment at some point. And therein lies the problem.
     
  18. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #18
    If groups like these continue to fight so vehemently against these types of laws, of course there will be harassment - especially from children who are being taught by adults (who obviously don't understand and refuse to educate themselves) that being transgender is wrong.

    How adults handled Larry King both before and after his murder should have been a lesson. Instead he was just another dead kid who adults refused to learn from.
     
  19. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #19
    Plus they'd have to show their equipment to verify status... :p
     
  20. HarryPot macrumors 6502a

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    #20
    I might find it unusual to see a man dressed like a woman in the men's restroom, but I won't feel insecure about it. In the other hand, girls might feel insecure sharing a restroom with someone who has a penis.

    How they are perceived doesn't change what they are. Besides, what % of transgender people do you think change so much to fool people about their "original" sexuality?

    This is were we disagree. He might feel like a girl and act like a girl, but he is not a girl.

    I don't get your point, I'm saying girls should go to girl restrooms, and boys should go to boys restrooms. If she is a girl with several masculine characteristics, she should go to the girls restroom, because SHE is a girl.

    If we are to protect someones rights this one comes as a logical one. We shouldn't discriminate restroom use by how you look, but by who/what you are. Easy as males go to males restroom, females go to females restrooms. After that, let's make sure everyone is civil enough to respect any kind of person that enters to that restroom.

    I was under the idea that people fighting for transgender rights take into account how the person feels, not how they look?
     
  21. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #21
    Well considering that no one person feels the same as another when it comes to using the restroom there needs to be a distinction. Besides, its not what your genitals look like, its about what kind you have.
     
  22. lannister80 thread starter macrumors 6502

    lannister80

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    #22
    Completely untrue. What you "feel like" is what you are. Luckily my brain and plumbing both agree, but for some people that's not true.

    Do you think that gay men should be attracted to women because they're male and that's what they're "supposed to feel like/do"?

    She is in every way that matters. Like I said, unless you're doing a genital check (which is the only way she's male), it's about what she acts like, feels like, identifies with that matters.


    She IS a girl...just one with a penis. Your brain makes you who you are, not your plumbing.

    Right, but wouldn't that make the other girls uncomfortable because they *think* it's actually a trans-guy, and thus she shouldn't be allowed to use the bathroom?

    That's what I'm getting at, it's all about perception.


    She's a girl in every way that matters on a day-to-day basis. Unless you were to do a genital check, there is no functional difference (to other girls in the bathroom) between a girl with a penis and a trans-looking-but-biological-female girl.
     
  23. HarryPot macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    Of course one could say the same thing in another case and it would be wrong. The point is that I'm using it in this case, I'm not saying it is a general rule or anything.

    The argument is that women normally feel less safe around unknown men. Specially in closed and normally empty environments like restrooms.

    Why? Because many criminals out there have made sure women fear getting raped by men. Sad, but is true.

    Logic would say that men that try and get to be women would be the last ones to rape a girl. And I really believe so, and by no means am I saying being transgender makes you more easily rape a girls.

    But, no matter how feminine this transgender acts, naturally women would feel unsafe around her/him, because in reality, she/he has a penis, and that detail is enough to make women feel insecure.
     
  24. lannister80 thread starter macrumors 6502

    lannister80

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    #24
    How do they know she has a penis? Did they check?

    You could say that black people make you insecure because black people commit more crimes per capita, but that's your hangup/problem, not theirs, just as in this case.
     
  25. skottichan macrumors 6502a

    skottichan

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    #25
    Fun little question to throw into the mix.

    What restroom should intersex people use?
     

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