Remember how Jewish Rabbi's molested young boys and provoked the nazis?

niuniu

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Neither do I. Though if you're Catholic your version of history might be as muddy as your relationship with young children.

VATICAN CITY — Pope Benedict XVI's personal preacher is likening accusations against the pope and the church in the sex abuse scandal to "collective violence" suffered by the Jews.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h9tJ-LNtc9Bz4QRBQ7V3BmEggRvQD9ER1KE80

Pope's personal preacher offers defense of pontiff

(AP) – 36 minutes ago

VATICAN CITY — Pope Benedict XVI's personal preacher is likening accusations against the pope and the church in the sex abuse scandal to "collective violence" suffered by the Jews.

The Rev. Raniero Cantalamessa said in a Good Friday sermon, with the pope listening to him in St. Peter's Basilica, that a Jewish friend has said the accusations remind him of the "more shameful aspects of anti-Semitism."

The remarks came in a prayer service at the Vatican a few hours before Benedict XVI was scheduled to take part in a Colosseum Way of the Cross procession commemorating Christ's suffering before his crucifixtion.

Thousands of Holy Week pilgrims were in St. Peter's Square as the church defends itself against accusations that Benedict had a role in covering up sex abuses cases.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pilgrims and tourists flocked to the Vatican ahead of Good Friday ceremonies as the Catholic church defends itself against accusations that Pope Benedict XVI played a role in covering up sex abuse cases.

The pope was scheduled to preside over a prayer service and listen to reflections from the papal household preacher in St. Peter's Basilica on Friday evening.

Hours later, thousands of faithful Catholics, clutching candles and prayer books, were expected to gather at the Colosseum to see the pope at night during at the traditional Way of the Cross procession commemorating Christ's crucifixion.

Amid reports of clerical sex abuse cases in several European countries, including Benedict's native Germany, the Vatican has fired back at the Western media, but the pope has not publicly addressed the crisis this week.

For pilgrims, the credibility crisis over the pope's record on combatting clergy abuse of minors didn't color their Holy Week activities in Rome.

Anne Rossier of Boston, Massachusetts, said the moment was "difficult" and that "lots of people have been turned against the church" but "we could not have been in a better place right now for Easter."

Boston was at the epicenter of sex abuse lawsuits and allegations that U.S. bishops in many dioceses shuffled pedophile priests from parish to parish instead of removing them from contact with the faithful. Boston Cardinal Bernard Law, at the center of the storm, resigned as archbishop, to be assigned to a prestigious post in Rome by the late Pope John Paul II.

Tourists snapped photos and strolled through St. Peter's Square on a breezy, sunny day. Valeria Misuri, 38, from Livorno, Italy, studied a map in the square as she visited Rome with her family.

"I haven't let the recent scandals change how special this place is at this time for me," said Misuri. "The church is made up of men, and men have always erred and will always continue to do so."

Pointing heavenward, she said: "In the end, the conscience lies there."

Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
Related articles

* Pope's preacher: Abuse critique like anti-Semitism
Houston Chronicle - 11 minutes ago


How about, the Catholic church's seemingly unending stream of child abuses has increased the ire of critics? No, they couldn't say that, that would make sense or something daft. Poor Catholic church. My heart bleeds.
 

barr08

macrumors 65816
Aug 9, 2006
1,362
0
Boston, MA
This should be in PRSI. I don't go to the Community Discussion forum to learn about current events, I come here to give sad Internet friends lady advice, and to discuss the smell of various food items.
 

obeygiant

macrumors 601
Jan 14, 2002
4,003
3,774
totally cool
There is already major thread dedicated to this topic here.

Though if you're Catholic your version of history might be as muddy as your relationship with young children.
I'm not a catholic so this doesn't effect me personally but I'm having trouble understanding what you're implying here.
 

Macaddicttt

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2004
992
2
San Diego, CA
Wow, way to take things way out of context. One priest quoting a Jewish friend of his leads to this backlash? As if there was any doubt of the anti-Catholic intentions of certain members of this forum before now.

Did anyone read the article, or just the inflammatory headline?
 

niuniu

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Wow, way to take things way out of context. One priest quoting a Jewish friend of his leads to this backlash? As if there was any doubt of the anti-Catholic intentions of certain members of this forum before now.

Did anyone read the article, or just the inflammatory headline?
The title's inflammatory, but the Pope's preacher's comment aren't?

How about the church tries to show some remorse for the 100's, if not 1000's of abuse cases we know about now instead of playing a sympathy card on the back of the holocaust.

Disgusting how some people care more about Catholicism's reputation that the abuse of young children.
 

Macaddicttt

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2004
992
2
San Diego, CA
The title's inflammatory, but the Pope's preacher's comment aren't?

How about the church tries to show some remorse for the 100's, if not 1000's of abuse cases we know about now instead of playing a sympathy card on the back of the holocaust.

Disgusting how some people care more about Catholicism's reputation that the abuse of young children.
Did you even read my post, let alone the article?! One priest quoted a Jewish friend of his. That's it. "The Church" didn't play a "sympathy card on the back of the holocaust." One guy related a conversation he had with a friend! Are you serious?

Or do you want to blame his Jewish friend of exploiting the Holocaust, too?

I simply cannot believe a) how biased you and this article are, and b) the way you clearly and willfully disregard the facts just because it suits your biases.
 

leekohler

macrumors G5
Dec 22, 2004
14,162
19
Chicago, Illinois
Did you even read my post, let alone the article?! One priest quoted a Jewish friend of his. That's it. "The Church" didn't play a "sympathy card on the back of the holocaust." One guy related a conversation he had with a friend! Are you serious?

Or do you want to blame his Jewish friend of exploiting the Holocaust, too?
Why relate the quote during a service if you aren't looking to play the sympathy card? I can't believe you're even trying this. Unbelievable. You should be admonishing this guy for even saying that. And how do you know that it was Jewish friend of his who said it anyway? Because priests never lie?
 

Macaddicttt

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2004
992
2
San Diego, CA
Why relate the quote during a service if you aren't looking to play the sympathy card? I can't believe you're even trying this. Unbelievable.
And I cannot believe you're playing this. I don't think this was a smart move on the part of the priest. I agree that he shouldn't have said it. But don't condemn the entire Church as playing the "Holocaust sympathy card" because one guy, who's probably been on the defensive like nobody's business for the past months, made a poor choice in his words.

If the thread were, "This priest shouldn't have said this." I would have chimed right in with my agreement. Instead, this was another blatant attempt to smear an entire religion no matter what the facts actually are. You're just kicking people while they're down. I hope you feel good about yourself.
 

niuniu

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Did you even read my post, let alone the article?! One priest quoted a Jewish friend of his. That's it. "The Church" didn't play a "sympathy card on the back of the holocaust." One guy related a conversation he had with a friend! Are you serious?
The one guy happens to be the Pope's preacher :rolleyes: Doesn't go much further up than that.

I wish I were that naive, I'd sleep better at night. You for one moment think that wasn't orchestrated as to allay criticism for saying something so abhorrent and distracting from the actual issue? Oh I forgot, it's ok to say the N-word. I have black friends.

As if common sense wouldn't lead to that conclusion, what do they do next with the letter? Pack it up and stick it with the others they receive? No, they send it off to another branch of the church. They're making a publicity campaign from it. No, not orchestrated at all.


The fact that they would even come out guns blazing instead of showing remorse is sick ab initio.
 

Macaddicttt

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2004
992
2
San Diego, CA
The one guy happens to be the Pope's preacher :rolleyes: Doesn't go much further up than that.

I wish I were that naive, I'd sleep better at night. You for one moment think that wasn't orchestrated as to allay criticism for saying something so abhorrent and distracting from the actual issue? Oh I forgot, it's ok to say the N-word. I have black friends.

Oh yeah, it was orchestrated. :rolleyes: It's all one big conspiracy. :rolleyes:

And no, it's not okay because "he has a Jewish friend." His Jewish friend SAID it.

As if common sense wouldn't lead to that conclusion, what do they do next with the letter? Pack it up and stick it with the others they receive? No, they send it off to another branch of the church. They're making a publicity campaign from it. No, not orchestrated at all.
Publicity? Are you serious? Let me tell you, priests don't normally have their sermons broadcasted globally. But go ahead, stick with the conspiracy theories. You're right, Catholics are just out to get you and molest little boys in the process. :rolleyes:
 

niuniu

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Oh yeah, it was orchestrated. :rolleyes: It's all one big conspiracy. :rolleyes:

And no, it's not okay because "he has a Jewish friend." His Jewish friend SAID it.



Publicity? Are you serious? Let me tell you, priests don't normally have their sermons broadcasted globally. But go ahead, stick with the conspiracy theories. You're right, Catholics are just out to get you and molest little boys in the process. :rolleyes:

Are you really that naive, you don't know that the Church has advice on publicity? No-one's crying conspiracy. It's a simple matter of the church publicly defending itself.

This was a public event, and the Pope's preacher used it to fight the negative publicity instead of showing remorse.

Sick. These people don't belong in the 21st century.
 

leekohler

macrumors G5
Dec 22, 2004
14,162
19
Chicago, Illinois
And I cannot believe you're playing this. I don't think this was a smart move on the part of the priest. I agree that he shouldn't have said it. But don't condemn the entire Church as playing the "Holocaust sympathy card" because one guy, who's probably been on the defensive like nobody's business for the past months, made a poor choice in his words.

If the thread were, "This priest shouldn't have said this." I would have chimed right in with my agreement. Instead, this was another blatant attempt to smear an entire religion no matter what the facts actually are. You're just kicking people while they're down. I hope you feel good about yourself.
My god! You don't even see the damage this scandal has caused when it's right in front of you. Do you not understand that every word that comes from the Vatican is now suspect because of decades of inaction? Do you not understand how severely the public's trust has been violated? Do you not see that the church is going to have to do a hell of a lot to make up for covering up for child molesters?

This is not "kicking people when they're down". This is being astonished at just how little grasp they seem to have on just how much damage has been done. It comes across as insensitive at best, callous at worst. And this wasn't some random priest, either.

Are you really that naive, you don't know that the Church has advice on publicity? No-one's crying conspiracy. It's a simple matter of the church publicly defending itself.

This was a public event, and the Pope's preacher used it to fight the negative publicity instead of showing remorse.
Exactly- this should not have been used as a "woe is us, the rest of the world is out to get us" moment.
 

Macaddicttt

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2004
992
2
San Diego, CA
Are you really that naive, you don't know that the Church has advice on publicity? No-one's crying conspiracy. It's a simple matter of the church publicly defending itself.

This was a public event, and the Pope's preacher used it to fight the negative publicity instead of showing remorse.

Sick. These people don't belong in the 21st century.
You think the Church sits around and vets every sermon? If this were a papal letter or a press release, I'd agree with you.

"These people." Give me a break.
 

mcrain

macrumors 68000
Feb 8, 2002
1,768
11
Illinois
Maybe I'm not getting this. Was the Jewish friend saying that the accusations against the Catholic Church were similar to anti-semitism?

Isn't anti-semitism prejudice or hostility toward Jews? The accusations of abuse are accusations of abuse, not necessarily anti-Catholicism. (Although, there are certainly some who are using these allegations to fuel their hostility toward that religion). [edit] Maybe that's what he was talking about.

The other statement I don't understand at all. Is he saying that the accusations of abuse are doing collective damage to the Catholic church similar to the way the collective violence hurt the Jews? If so, is he saying that the Jews brought that collective violence on themselves, or that the Catholic church is innocent? [edit] Maybe he's just saying that the church is taking a big hit without necessarily commenting on the underlying abuse scandal.

I think the statements might have been unwise, but clearly they are not very well thought out.
 

yg17

macrumors G5
Aug 1, 2004
14,888
2,480
St. Louis, MO
Did you even read my post, let alone the article?! One priest quoted a Jewish friend of his. That's it. "The Church" didn't play a "sympathy card on the back of the holocaust." One guy related a conversation he had with a friend! Are you serious?

Or do you want to blame his Jewish friend of exploiting the Holocaust, too?

I simply cannot believe a) how biased you and this article are, and b) the way you clearly and willfully disregard the facts just because it suits your biases.
I'm getting sick of the "one guy" argument. One guy touched a kid. One guy covered it up. One guy moved a priest to another church. We've had a lot of these "one guys." At some point, the church has to take responsibility and take the blame.

If it were a company, and some of its low level retail employees stole money from customers, and the managers at the company just moved employees around from store to store, rather than turn them in to law enforcement, and the top execs didn't do anything either, the bad publicity would fall upon the company itself, and rightfully so. No one would be saying "One guy did this, one guy said that." The company would see a ****storm of bad publicity and their name would be tarnished. The church is at that point. These are no longer isolated incidents. The church either needs to get it's **** together and fire every single person involved in child abuse or the coverup thereof, and see to it that the abusers are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, or the church needs to be known as an organization that provides a safe harbor for child molesters.
 

niuniu

macrumors 68020
Original poster
You think the Church sits around and vets every sermon? If this were a papal letter or a press release, I'd agree with you.

"These people." Give me a break.
It was the Pope's preacher. And they sent the letter halfway across the globe, so lack of 'vetting' isn't even nearly a credible defence.

You do need a break.

The terrible shame here is that people would rather try to find wiggle room in arguments to defend the Church, when all over the world families are dealing with the aftermath of their abused children.

Absolutely abhorrent. In one church alone, there were over 200 known cases of abuse. That's one church.
 

Macaddicttt

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2004
992
2
San Diego, CA
I'm getting sick of the "one guy" argument. One guy touched a kid. One guy covered it up. One guy moved a priest to another church. We've had a lot of these "one guys." At some point, the church has to take responsibility and take the blame.

If it were a company, and some of its low level retail employees stole money from customers, and the managers at the company just moved employees around from store to store, rather than turn them in to law enforcement, and the top execs didn't do anything either, the bad publicity would fall upon the company itself, and rightfully so. No one would be saying "One guy did this, one guy said that." The company would see a *****torm of PR and their name would be tarnished. The church is at that point. These are no longer isolated incidents. The church either needs to get it's **** together and fire every single person involved in child abuse or the coverup thereof, and see to it that the abusers are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, or the church needs to be known as an organization that provides a safe harbor for child molesters.
You know, the Church did that. The pope has specifically apologized. Five years ago he said there was "filth" in the Church. Now you're expecting a gag-order on all priests so that they don't accidentally say something that can be misconstrued? You're living in a fantasy world if you think the Church has that much control over their priests.
 

Macaddicttt

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2004
992
2
San Diego, CA
It was the Pope's preacher. And they sent the letter halfway across the globe, so lack of 'vetting' isn't even nearly a credible defence.

You do need a break.

The terrible shame here is that people would rather try to find wiggle room in arguments to defend the Church, when all over the world families are dealing with the aftermath of their abused children.

Absolutely abhorrent. In one church alone, there were over 200 known cases of abuse. That's one church.
Okay, now you're just lying. This was no letter sent "halfway across the globe." This was said at a prayer service.

And no, they wouldn't "rather find wiggle room in arguments to defend the Church." The Church has already said a terrible thing has happened. Now people, like you, are jumping on these events to go further to criticize the Church in completely unfair ways. He didn't say, "Those accusing priests of abuse are like Nazis." Not even close. He said, "People are seizing on these events, and showing their obvious anti-Catholic prejudices."

Actually look at the facts, maybe, instead of making things up.
 

yg17

macrumors G5
Aug 1, 2004
14,888
2,480
St. Louis, MO
You know, the Church did that. The pope has specifically apologized. Five years ago he said there was "filth" in the Church. Now you're expecting a gag-order on all priests so that they don't accidentally say something that can be misconstrued? You're living in a fantasy world if you think the Church has that much control over their priests.
Can a church stop their priests from touching kids? No. As soon as there are allegations of abuse, can it turn the priest in to law enforcement for further investigation, and upon conviction, fire them? Yes. Did they? No. Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that the church is an organization which provides a safe harbor for child molesters.