Republican contradictions

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Robstevo, Jan 16, 2017.

  1. Robstevo macrumors 6502

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    #1
    just wanted to ask a question.

    From my understanding republicans are big on small government, seem to be big on Christ, and big on the constitution.

    So why:

    1-do they want to restrict who can get married? Surely it shouldn't be upto the government who can get married? And if their is government bennifits for marriage surely they want to end all tax bennifits for marriage?


    2-if they are truly big in Christ, why are they against social programs and health for all? Jesus was pretty much a socialist. He wanted to help everyone in need and had a lot of compassion. Yet the republicans seem to want people to fend for themselves and seem to have a me me mentality. Surely this contradicts point 1, but also the point about being followers of Christ? If you have the power to help then do it?

    3- 3 follows point 1, surely following the constitution, you can't discriminate, which is what trump is trying to do with people of brown skin, sexual preferences etc

    Anyway my question is, is their a massive contradiction in the values of republicans currently? And do they even realise this?
     
  2. duffman9000 macrumors 68000

    duffman9000

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    #2
    They are all about keeping government out of their lives when it's in regard to paying taxes and all about using government when it's in regard to pushing their "values" on others. See also corporate welfare is okay while social welfare is evil and unholy.

    There was an interesting story on Vox, IIRC, where the republicans think people are born bad versus the crazy democrats that believe people are inherently born good.
     
  3. Robstevo, Jan 16, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017

    Robstevo thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #3
    Don't they realise everything they are saying is going against Jesus Christ their savour?surely they will go to hell?or do they repent everyday for their sins?

    I just find it weird the lefts values are inclined to the lefts values. Yet in American it seems like it's the right that shout the word of god yet doing the opposite?

    Please note I am more central that anything:I believe in free Speach and no exceptions, also believe in a strong fiscal plan and controlled immigration. But also believe healthcare and education should be "free" and not profit based

    And believe democracy should be
    1: not in any way religious - which is what your founders surelt intended?
     
  4. duffman9000 macrumors 68000

    duffman9000

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    #4
    I know of some that don't believe that was Jesus' message at all (what you posted in comment 1). I know of one that believes that belief alone is the only thing needed. This ignores the fact that almost none of us exist in a vacuum.

    I won't call this guy my friend, but he believes that all you have to do is believe. Note how I'm not mentioning anything else because there is nothing else required. But Duff, how can you prove that you really follow Jesus? You don't have to prove anything because Jesus knows what it's in your heart. But still Duff, what about actual acts? NOPE, doesn't matter.
     
  5. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #5
    As with Democrats, there is no "One size fits all." For instance, some Republicans are not very much small-c conservative. Many are labeled Republicans In Name Only--the RINOs. As with many--and maybe most--politicians, they'll espouse whatever party line that will help get them elected or re-elected.

    As for spending on social programs, face it: Most of them do little or nothing to help people improve their lot in life. From a money and debt standpoint, they have become unaffordable. But, they serve as Danegeld, keeping the very-poor quiescent--mostly. So, those who watch the problems of vast debt are stubborn against increasing that debt. In general it has little or nothing to do with "hating the poor".

    Most of the opposition to "gay marriage" has to do with a mix of views. One is the use of the word "marriage", which for most people it means a young man and young woman settling in to a traditional way of life and raising kids. The deal began as a money issue: A gay couple could not have health insurance or retirement benefits within the existing legal structure. Had "civil union" been enabled, the entire process would have been fairly non-controversial. And, sure, given the hostility in the Bible toward homosexuality, some Christians are less tolerant than others. Nothing unusual there. It's a blessing, of course, that homosexuality is not a death penalty offense as it is in Islamic countries under Sharia law.

    Trump's discrimination is against illegal immigrants, not brown-skin immigrants who enter legally. To claim otherwise is a lie. As far as Islamics, he's called for vetting against allowing ISIS-minded people to come here--which is quite rational.
     
  6. Snoopy4 macrumors 6502a

    Snoopy4

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    #6
    1. Marriage has historically been a State rights issue. Look up Utah and what it had to do to become a State.
    2. Christianity teaches the basic tenant of self reliance, not being a leach on your neighbor. Helping people is one thing, saying they shouldn't work for it is another. Your description of what Christians should and shouldn't do, apparently in perpetuity, is a perversion of the faith. For example, what does Christianity it say about coveting?
    3. Nonsense. Nothing he has ever said should lead you to that conclusion. Kicking people out of your country who are here illegally is not racist.
     
  7. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #7
    Today's Christianity as practiced by a percentage of Christians is a corruption of the original values attributed to the person called Jesus in the Bible. It's the pick and choose faith buffet and in some cases dump your own recipe on the table and claim it's included in the menu.
     
  8. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #8
    Any political party that embraces myth and superstition makes me nervous. The Republicans and Democrats make me nervous.

    All religion is a "pick and choose buffet." That's why they change and evolve to accomodate the prevailing norms of the day.
     
  9. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #9
    I think we need to tolerate contradictions, because everybody has them. Holding a seemingly contradictory position within the broad spectrum of political belief isn't a problem. It's only a problem when a contradictory stance is put forth on a specific subject. For instance, Mitt Romney admitted that he doesn't give the government a penny more than the law demands, which makes him smart, while claiming that 47% of Americans who likewise don't give the government a penny more than the law demands were, "takers." That's a contradictory stance. And it should be called out as such. But within the numerous issues that abound in our socio/political world, we're sure to hold some that don't seem to align perfectly.
     
  10. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #10
    The difference with the religious right and the religious left is their God. For the right it's the biblical God for the left government is God.
     
  11. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #11
    Well, this is ridiculous.

    And if it wasn't, any worship of the government will surely come to a crashing end on Friday.

    Guess we'll have to go back to worshiping spaghetti.
     
  12. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #12
    Not really. He even had a treasurer to manage money, and he told a few stories that are everything but socialist (see the talents, etc.).
    He was way above reductive classifications such as socialist/capitalist/marxist/liberalist etc.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 17, 2017 ---
    Italian born here. Your attempt at cultural appropriation is very offensive. ;)
     
  13. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #13
    And for DrewDaHilp1, hyperbole is thought.
     
  14. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    #14
    In very, very simplistic language, if everybody gets a benefit, then it's no longer a benefit.

    Speaking for myself, I see no reason to make marriage a prerequisite for tax benefits. I would prefer that the government not decide on behalf of others what is and is not a family; specifically, if people choose to live together as a family, then they're a family. The government should have no say in that, and I would be just fine with allowing the same tax benefits to be enjoyed by such a family.

    I'm a very traditional person, and I see marriage as one type of family bond, one that goes above and beyond "we're a family because we say we are." I see it as something very special - even though I view non-married couples as valid families if that's how they choose to identify themselves, I view marriage as something even more sacred than that.

    Interesting - I had no idea I was against social programs. o_O

    Can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself, and assume that I may also be speaking for others - but my beef isn't with social programs, it's with social programs growing out of control. Some of it may be due to abuse of the system, some of it may be inefficient operation, and some of it may just be a handful (or more!) of legislators simply packing on and packing on the benefits, knowing that all they have to do to fund the excess is to get a government in place that's willing to raise taxes even higher.

    I'd rather put some effort into cleaning up these programs and making them leaner, taking some degree of care of those who need it but doing our best to eliminate waste at the expense of others. I believe that helping others gives us room to provide assistance to someone in need without necessarily putting them on equal footing with those who earned it themselves. I believe in the pursuit of happiness, and that if you're unable (or unwilling) to pursue it yourself to the same degree as others, then those others should be under no obligation to make you as comfortable as they have made themselves. I believe in leaving an incentive out there for people to help themselves.

    I don't feel like I can address this comment as it's written - has Mr. Trump proposed legislation that would allow us straight, white folk to discriminate against brown people and queers? If so I'm not aware of it.
     
  15. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #15
    The fallacy, dear Watson, is in your assumption that Republicans are big on Christ. Not so. They're big on Old Testament follow da Law mentality. Christ wasn't big on da Law, seeing how he took several opportunity break the Sabbath (a stoning offense). Da Law says, "No bacon." Jeezbeez says, "Eat anything you want. It's all good."
     
  16. duffman9000 macrumors 68000

    duffman9000

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    #16
    But if they were truly big on Old Testament we'd be back to animal sacrifices.

    Also, this would destroy the entire born again movement since none of that exists in the Old Testament. Furthermore, why not just convert to Judaism since they seem big on the Old Testament too lol.

    I know, I know, pick and choose hypocrisy.
     
  17. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #17
    The GOP is still doing that, metaphorically any how. They'll use anyone as a scapegoat (Levitcus 16:8) to forward their agenda. During the past 8 years it was Barry O. During the election it was Muslims. Now it's immigrants.
     
  18. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #18
    Honestly I don't think the true paradox is that the GOP holds seemingly self-contradictory views. The true paradox is that somehow Trump and the GOP have convinced the very people the GOP has been keeping down that the GOP is somehow their saviour from the big bad Democrats, who have been fighting for the little guy and civil liberties since the 1960's... It's weird, but I suspect any illusions about the GOP will be dispelled when the GOP remove people's ACA health care insurance and fail to replace it with anything sensible.
     
  19. 5684697, Jan 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  20. duffman9000 macrumors 68000

    duffman9000

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    #20
    Religion has been used to justify all kinds of ****. I wouldn't throw it all away but I wouldn't put it on a pedestal either.
     
  21. 5684697, Jan 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  22. duffman9000 macrumors 68000

    duffman9000

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    #22
    Intolerance was learned from religion. Is that the point you're trying to make?

    Or is that religion has caused less mass deaths than godless communism?
     
  23. 5684697, Jan 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  24. duffman9000 macrumors 68000

    duffman9000

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    #24
    Ugh did you forget the crimes that Christianity has committed or are you going to sweep that under the rug?
     
  25. 5684697, Jan 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017

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