Republican party is DEAD, DEFEAT pulled from jaws of victory. So Sad!!! ObamaCare is Permanent!

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by PracticalMac, Mar 25, 2017.

  1. PracticalMac, Mar 25, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017

    PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #1
    Republican party is DEAD, conservative support GONE, DEFEAT pulled from jaws of victory. So Sad!!!
    ACA/ObamaCare is Permanent!

    To the Conservatives and Republicans here:
    READ to end.

    For 7 years and 60 tried the Republican causes tried to repeal ACA/ObamaCare.

    Repeal was their slogan, their mantra, their anthem, their waking thought and bed time lullaby, it was the oxygen they breathed.
    After winning all 3 branches with a strong majority it the 2016 election the Las Vegas bet was ACA was doomed.

    Except it when they finally presented their solution, it utterly and spectacularly failed.

    Not only could the House agree to the idiotic Ryan Plan, the members where swamped with calls screaming to kill it, at >90% against the TRyanCare (TrumpCare) plan.

    To the Hard Right Libertarian small-government conservatives, this is a not just a massive disappointment, it is also seen as treachery both in failure to repeal, and in a replacement that was a nightmare worse.

    And now the Republicans OWN ObamaCare.

    Yes, the Republicans have by default adopted ACA as their own because being the ruling party of land they have guardianship of the program and must fix its flaws because failure to act would only label Republicans as lazy, uncaring, uninterested, or simply incompetent.

    How did this happen?

    Even before Obama's election the conservatives became a party of complainers. The complaining only got louder in later Obama years, and now that they are in power the only thing they know how to do is Complain.

    Trump was elected because he was a master at complaining! How many times did he even propose a solution to an ill? What about those times he had "a plan" to fix something (a real solution, not barriers with dubious funding source).

    Now that Republicans are in charge and major bills can pass the WH, they are discovering major difficulties on getting consensus.

    Trump's judicious use of superlatives on the fatally flawed AHCA / TRyanCare bill are now clearly seen as fake advertising because after the defeat he started using them again for the replacement bill that is not even in anyone imagination.
    Now Trumps words are meaningless because it is obvious to all he is totally clueless.

    Ryan (real creator of the AHCA), where it any other country, would have resigned following his calamitous failure (remember David Cameron?).
    He failed to believe Trump could win, he failed to see his part to change oversight laws, he failed to sell his AHCA plan, and he failed to rally party members.

    Meanwhile major conservative donors (Koch for example) are pulling support.

    PREDICTED 7 YEARS AGO
    David Frum, a staunch conservative and speechwriter for President George W. Bush is also very pragmatic and understood political dynamics and predicted after passage of ACA it would not be repelled. Vilified and ostracized by fellow conservatives for daring to point out flaws in Republican thinking and to commit heresy to even suggest working with Democrats he stood by his predictions, and they have come to fruition.
    I am an amateur compared to Frum, but even then I saw years ago the Republican party was a train-wreck looking for a place, which they found the place Friday.

    SO SAD!
    Really, it is bad the Republican party (and to good degree Democrats) have let partisanship trump common-sense. Politics works best when all can have their say and workout a plan that helps as many as possible.
    Instead the message I get is Republicans really only care about themselves, to HELL with non-believers.
    This also means the US may have 4 years of decline, unable to enact urgent fixes to the US economy.
    so sad.


    PS: I did note what Frum said, that the conservative media (Rush) will probably enjoy a ratings boom from more frustrated listeners ranting into the wind. Something to watch.

    UPDATE addition:
    I doubt, like Frum, the Republicans will kill ACA. TRyanCare has permanently damaged their ability to craft a replacement anyone will trust.
     
  2. SusanK macrumors 68000

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    #2
    I wonder if GOP will chip away at ACA in reconciliations?
     
  3. tunerX Suspended

    tunerX

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    #3
    https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...sperately-holding-on-to-reagan-dream.1963686/

    Same OP same tune.
     
  4. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #4
  5. bopajuice macrumors 65816

    bopajuice

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    #5
    Obamacare worked for me. I received no subsidies or handouts and it was fine until it got too expensive. The solution would've been to have both parties work together. People want healthcare. Many say corporations should not be expected to provide healthcare. We're the only major developed nation in the world that does not provide free healthcare for all their citizens.

    With a little tweaking the ACA could've been so much more. All this partisan bickering, political games, and fighting really solved nothing.

    For those who are against government mandated healthcare, perhaps they should voluntarily forfeit their Social Security and Medicare and take a cash payment for what you paid in. After that you're on your own.
     
  6. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #6
    Doubt it, it would only make them more liable for ACA failures.

    And now Trump has much bigger items on his list.
     
  7. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    #7
    The government doesn't have nearly enough money to pay out all the people that would sign up for this.
     
  8. SusanK macrumors 68000

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    #9
    The sum would also have to include opportunity costs.
     
  9. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #10
    1) there's already a thread for this

    2) The Obamacare shitsandwich is all the democrats doing.
     
  10. MarkusL macrumors 6502

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    #11
    And the republicans love **** so much they decided to keep it!
     
  11. Septembersrain Contributor

    Septembersrain

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    #12
    Hey, if ObamaCare tanks, the fault will be put solely on the Democrats. It's going to be an ugly failure and I am terrified what either side will do after that. Unless it's a move from for profit and price gouging, we're going to keep ending up here.
     
  12. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    #13
    I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

    I'm saying that if the government allowed people to opt out of Social Security and get all the money back that we paid in, many of us would take that deal in a heartbeat.

    So many that the SSA wouldn't be able to make the payouts. They'd collapse, just like every other ponzi scheme does when the "investors" demand their money back.
     
  13. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #14
    It won't.
     
  14. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #15
    You mean by the American people? No it won't. With the spectacular fail of the GOP to fix something they said they would fix, they will be thrown right under the bus too.

    Now if you mean that the GOP will try to blame democrats solely, then yes. We already saw that game being played last night when Trump attempted to pivot. However it's more than a little disingenuous when someone says that it would have been nice to have democrat's support on something, when that person made no effort whatsoever to reach out to democrats and get some on board to begin with.
     
  15. BeeGood, Mar 25, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017

    BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    #16
    The Democrats should shoulder some of the blame since it was their plan, but given the spectacular failure of the GOP to replace it after crowing about it for years, everyone is going to put the blame on Trump and the Republicans, right or wrong.
     
  16. SusanK macrumors 68000

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    #17
    I was referring to the use of the funds deducted from our pay for decades. If the funds were not taken we could have saved or invested for a return. The dollars deducted when I was 16 were worth much more than a dollar is today.

    I simple dollar for dollar payout is inadequate.

    This is all very hypothetical as the Feds are using the funds as I type for government services. Paying out even dollar for dollar would not be a consideration.

    I think I understand your post to mean that if a worker could recoup all FICA taxes some may take the offer similar to a lump sum pension payout. If that is not correct please advise. Thanks!
     
  17. Huntn, Mar 25, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #18
    I agree. The problem is the GOP's heart is not into providing this benefit to average citizens while they realized if they killed the ACA without a replacement, they were toast. The word to describe it is impotent.

    Most ironic is the Congress, civil service, and military get socialized medicine, yet...
     
  18. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #19
    Hurray!!!!!!! Now in 20 years everyone will have crap service. Hurray!!!!!!! We can be Cuba now.
     
  19. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    #20
    I gotcha. I agree...that would be the right thing to do. Maybe addd interest at the 10 year Treasury rate or something like that.

    But honestly, I'd take a dollar for dollar deal today. I'm still at least 25 years from retirement and I'm positive I can not only do better than what the government would have done, but also overcome the fact that I have zero return on the money that I've paid in to this point.

    But that decision is probably a function of age. I wouldn't expect someone close to retirement to take that deal, although I think some would.
     
  20. SusanK macrumors 68000

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    #21
    If profit is stripped from the health care industry or health insurers what would be the motivation to continue?

    Absent religious orders taking over the biz how would this work? Thanks!
     
  21. cube macrumors G5

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    #22
  22. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #23
    Cuba had better healthcare than the US for a long time...
     
  23. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #24
    The republicans sure do have selective memories. "We will repeal and replace as the first thing we do. This sinking ship will not last and the American people will thank us for fixing it." So ya.
     
  24. SusanK macrumors 68000

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    #25
    If you are 25 years from retirement getting out could be financially advantageous. I made several stock investments that outperformed FICA. Difficult to judge how Medicare will play out until I'm dead but Social Security I could have beaten with the dart board method.
     

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