Republicans are idiots, Part 1: the Wall

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by PracticalMac, Dec 20, 2018.

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  1. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #1
  2. ericgtr12 macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

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    Well, they now have a GoFundMe account to raise money for the wall, sort of funny but also good for the people for taking it up if that's how they want to pay for it instead of taxing the people.

    That said, I have a hard time calling Republicans or Dems idiots. I'm hoping when we're all done with this Trump thing we can go back to debating issues instead of personalities.
     
  3. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    Me too, but not talking about them does not make the idiots go away.
     
  4. raqball macrumors 68000

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    Do we need the wall? Don't know but we need something as the current state of affairs is woeful.. A wall does work but it's expensive. 25B to build it is probably leaps and bounds cheaper than the amount of money that's shelled out to and for illegals over the long run...

    I personally don't give a hoot about it but.. He ran on it and he won so....

    Mexico pay for it? I never bought into that.. I personally don't have an issue with funding it. The man ran on it, the man won and as Obama once famously said, elections have consequences...
     
  5. ericgtr12 macrumors 65816

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    Right but not even Republicans will give him the votes he needs. Those consequences can go both ways.
     
  6. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    Anyone ever hear of or read the Secure Fence Act of 2006, let alone who voted yay for it.
     
  7. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #7
    Illegals actually help the economy over all.
    HUGE number of issues, but bottom line $, it's a +.


    As to wall, I do think there are areas that need to be rebuilt, but a wall the entire length is waste of dwindling tax income.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 20, 2018 ---

    Sure, so what does #45 have that makes his better?
    OOOhhhhh, his name.

    Here is a good, solid $ on how much #45wall will cost
    And that was using relatively inexpensive fencing.
     
  8. raqball macrumors 68000

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    Been down this road many times in the past and do not buy that argument.. There are plenty of studies that say otherwise and that illegals are a serious drain and very costly to US taxpayers...

    Not really interested in going down this rabbit hole again though...
     
  9. RichardMZhlubb, Dec 20, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018

    RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    No, he did not “run on it.” He ran on building a wall with no US taxpayer funding. You cannot equate that to the current proposal.
     
  10. raqball macrumors 68000

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    He ran on the wall..... He also said he'd make Mexico pay for it. 2 separate issues in my book.

    I am all for funding the wall and I couldn't care less if Mexico does not pay for it.... But I am just one US taxpayer so there you go.....

    Personally I don't care about the wall. The man won the election so build it on up...
     
  11. kobalap, Dec 20, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018

    kobalap macrumors 6502

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    The wall works? Really?

    It will take $25 billion to build it. How much will it take to maintain it per year? And for how long will it need to be maintained for it to "work"? I assume the answer is, forever.

    And then, there is this:

    Question: How do you defeat a 30 ft wall?
    Answer: A 31 ft ladder.

    The only way for the wall to "work" is for it to be supplemented by border patrol actively monitoring for people who are trying to defeat the wall with ladders, tunnels, explosives, catapults, etc. How much will that cost? And even then, what do we do about illegals that come here via air and sea? And how much will that cost?

    We need border security. Of that, there is no doubt. Recent events in Tijuana make this point very clear. But I have a lot of skepticism that extending a 2000 mile wall will be a cost effective way to enhance border security.
     
  12. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    That's not how anything works.
     
  13. BaldiMac macrumors 604

    BaldiMac

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    The best part about this Republican fiasco that we are going through now is that the President was offered $20 billion for the wall a year ago and turned it down in order to try and curb LEGAL immigration. Talk about overplaying your hand! :D
     
  14. ericgtr12 macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

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    Sounds like Trump is holding out and will not sign at the moment, this is all just breaking now.
     
  15. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

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    I am really curious to see this play out. In general, I say that Trump should've signed, I am not on his side on this.
     
  16. raqball macrumors 68000

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    As previously stated, I do not care about the wall.... But the man won the election so..... I didn't care for that farce Obama Care either but the same applies... He won his election so let him have his golden egg..

    But the great and mighty (/s) Obama said it was so...... Was Obama wrong or was he just telling more lies?
     
  17. BaldiMac macrumors 604

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    He won the responsibility to execute the law. Not the ability to create it.
     
  18. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

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    Are you saying that building a wall, going through congress and the budgeting process, is unconstitutional?
     
  19. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    As we head into a new year in which impeachment talk is only going to get louder and louder, Trump’s last line of defense is the Senaste GOP Majority, but he just played them for fools by allowing McConnell to bring the clean CR to the floor for a vote. And I understand it, half of the Republican members of the senate have already left town for the holiday, so any new deal will require that they come back to DC. Between this clown show and announcing the Syria pullout without consulting anyone on the Hill, he is rapidly destroying whatever good will he has with the Senate majority. I’m not suggesting that they are going to convict on impeachment, but a competent president certainly isn’t going to go to these lengths to piss off his future jury.
     
  20. BaldiMac macrumors 604

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    No. I'm saying that it's Congress's job to decide if the wall gets built. Not the vote for president.
     
  21. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

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    ... which is exactly what is happening, right?
     
  22. raqball macrumors 68000

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    Exactly... Trump has a right to ask for it and even demand it... Does he get it? Well that up to Congress.. If people want it and they don't give it to him then they need to answer to their constituents....

    I don't care about the wall either way... I am of the thought that he won, he ran on it, give it to him..

    Meh whatever... I though Obama care was a joke and still do but you know what, the man won his election so let him have his golden egg....

    I will say this... Either fund it fully or don't bother with 5B.... What I see happening is this 5B gets spent (if he gets it) and maybe another 5B ect.. Next president comes in, does not want to spend another cent on it, and we are at 20% wall built and 10B down the drain. Fund it in full or not at all....
     
  23. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

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    ah, the magic and mystery of public finance!
     
  24. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    @PracticalMac is correct to note the lack of appropriations in the Secure Fence Act, which is always a sign that Congress wanted credit for the bill, but didn't actually want it.

    And, the Secure Fence Act, along with the 2007 update (and the REAL ID Act, which gave DHS the ability to waive environmental rules to build more fencing) meant that DHS built fencing in many places, but after a wave of construction, the department lost interest.

    Yep. He wanted a bunch of limitations to legal immigration and billions for the wall in exchange for DACA and Dems rejected it.

    There's no sign that the wall has worked over time, and the $25 billion number is arguably the lowest estimate as some have gone as high at $25 billion. Consider the construction of a four-mile section of "bollard" fencing at the Paso Del Norte international crossing. The cost of the 18-foot high bollard there is $22 million or $5.5 million per mile.

    (We'll also note that some of the projects that Trump claims are Obama-era projects funded in 2015 and 2016).

    Really, it's become clear also that the whole San Diego wall prototypes was a boondoggle.

    And, the illegal population appears to benefit the U.S. accordingly to every viable academic study on the subject. Only CIS's ginned-up study shows the opposite, and while that's popular in right-wing circles, the methodology is obviously flawed.

    Finally, consider if "elections have consequences," the 2018 election showed that Trump, and the wall idea may be unpopular, and unlikely to be funded in the future. Trump had about 18 months and he wasted them.
     

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93 December 20, 2018