Republicans are they Just being?...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by macfan881, Feb 15, 2009.

  1. macfan881 macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    #1
    after seeing this whoe debate going back and forth with the stimulus and then seeing McCain on Cnn this morning im starting to wonder are they really just thinkin this bill is all spend spend spend or are they just Tring to be Sore losers about the last elction and giving it to obama? im looking at it this because obamas worked hard i mean the first few days obama has done pretty much everything trying to get repuplicans to vote and even some republicans added some sections to the bills and then not even voting to it. im really starting to think that there just taking out there anger out on this and i think its just the beging anyway i wanna see what you guys think on this?

    here is Cnns interview with McCain to by the way if u havent seen it.
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/15/obama.gop.stimulus/index.html
     
  2. trule macrumors 6502

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    #2
    McCain is confused in general, and Republicans are still adjusting to their new position of NO power.

    They were invited to participate, at least by Obama (House democrats are another story...), they provided feedback and got some changes (the bill is less that 800B after all)...but when it came time to vote, well they were never going to win so why not just complain and rehash the old tax cuts for the rich arguments to keep the base happy.

    Notice how no one is asking where the 800 Billion is going to come from? Add it to the deficit of ca 400 Billion, the TARP of 700 Billion and the latest rescue package of 1.3 Trillion....that comes to 3.2 TRILLION.

    Who has 3.2T spare? Interest alone will be 1.600 per working American per year...are taxes going to go up to cover that?
    :mad:
     
  3. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #3
    The GOP had some points about the Stimulus package not being all about jobs(I mean it was a small %, but it was there, and the things in there were important) now it just seems like they are dragging their feet


    I think perhaps some are doing to make the dems look bad, other aren't supporting it because they think the market should handle it, but won't come out and say thatas some( like Ron Paul, who had at least has the respect to say what he's thinking and be honest about it, even if I disagree with him) because they fear the dems will take it and run with it as the party of "solutions" while the GOP didn't want to do anything
     
  4. Malfoy macrumors 6502a

    Malfoy

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    #4
    ever consider that they just might not like the bill? I'm a republican (not a Bush republican, there is a difference) and I'm not a fan of the bill. I'm not a fan of a lot of things that's been going on though and how the whole thing is being handled.
     
  5. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #5
    Well, why throw all those tax cuts that will do nothing, and then vote against it?

    They've known from the beginning that they were going to vote no.
     
  6. bruinsrme macrumors 601

    bruinsrme

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    #6
    I am a republican and I can't help but think we need to do something different. The GOP had a number of years to do something but yet failed.
    Either it's the emocrats turn to fail or change the direction of the country.

    scott
     
  7. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #7

    I'm sure thats part of it, but I assume you'd at least explain why, and then if other parties involved in it changed some of it to your liking(in some way, clearly we can't get everything we want), you'd be willing to go along with it.


    But non of the house GOP went with it! At least let use keep a strong bill around if you're not going to vote for it
     
  8. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #8
    Fixed, I think?

    They are not printing money, they are printing confidence, for if the Consumer does not believe, it will fail.

    Something like voodoo. ;)
     
  9. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #9
    I think with the stimulus / bailout situation, the problem is that there is no political battle between two competing theories of how to steer the country and world through this crisis -- I would gave neither side credit for having a really coherent plan that is likely to work. I don't blame them, because I don't think that there's really great data for one out there yet.

    On the Democratic side (and with Bush before Obama came into office -- so really on the Executive side), the bailouts and stimuli are incredibly problematic -- the strongest evidence from the most similar previous situation is with Japan's previous economic crisis, and although that situation is not the same, that evidence suggests overwhelmingly that this plan will not work. On the other hand, that evidence suggests it because the Japanese tried the same thing and it didn't succeed. To the Exec branch's credit, there's just no data to say how bad things will get if immediate interventions aren't taken, even if they are both extreme and unlikely to solve the problem.

    On the Republican side, particularly in Congress, there just isn't any plan. No one aside from Bush and his team in the GOP has really stood up and articulated a plan even at a basic level that is likely to work. Polemics like Ron Paul who complain about how wrong is what is being done still don't offer a better alternative. And doing nothing is incredibly unlikely to be a good strategy.

    These trillions of dollars that have been earmarked in the past several months are honestly only about stemming the bloodflow. The only solution out there that really has any evidence in support of it is what Japan did -- nationalize banks and subject both the nationalized ones and the continuing private ones to intense and constant scrutiny that will not end when the economy improves. Even that is not necessarily the way forward in this case, but it's the only thing that has previously solved a problem like this.
     
  10. Peace macrumors P6

    Peace

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    #10
    Stimulus bimulus. The Republican Party is doing it's best to sabotage the Obama administration. It's blatantly obvious to me.
     
  11. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #11
    Of course they are. There's a reason they suddenly have "ethics" again. They have no interest in making anything work. They can't get elected if things go well.
     
  12. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #12
    To mkrishnan's post, true nationalizing the banks would probably work but there would be bloody murder screamed at taking away free-markets. I find it interesting that the GOP is screaming that no one has read the new bill but I guess no one read Bush's $700 billion package either but that was passed and we see how well that has done.

    I saw something interesting on CNN not to long ago about the bubble that Washington D.C. is in, and not just the politicians, the entire city. The politicians and the the people who work for them help D.C.'s economy and when CNN asked people in D.C. they said they know about the economic woes but don't really feel it. Same goes for the actual politicians, they know about it from what they hear from there constituents and see if they actually do go back to their home states but they live in a bubble up in Washington, they pass judgments and pass mostly useless bills never really understanding what it does, that's if they even read it in the first place.

    It was interesting that after the house passed a $819 billion package the first time the GOP was screaming that it was too much but then there is McCain saying that they needed to add $90 billion to the package. Funny if you ask me... It'd be nice if the politicians would just looked around for a few seconds and saw reality instead of being in D.C. amongst all that fantasy...
     
  13. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #13
    GOP were spending like drunken sailors for the 6 years they ran all 3 branches. A good portion of this mess we are in is from them and the spend and spend with no accountability they pushed. Hypocrites, McCain is just sad and if the republicans want a lesson on being partison all they have to do is look at themselves during the 6 years of Dubya. They look like a bunch of crybabys , it was fine for them to do this but not the democrats?= Hypocrite. They all suck and im talking both partys.:p
     
  14. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #14
    John Boner (thats what I call him) the house minority leader was whining the other day about the fact that the bill provides for a high speed rail link between Los Angeles and Las Vegas, and he was calling it pork and said something like "How is this going to create jobs in my district?"

    It's the typical Republican "Me! Me! Me! I don't give a damn about anyone else!" attitude. Nevermind the fact that it's going to create a ton of jobs and hopefully reduce carbon emissions, he's complaining that this specific thing in the bill won't create jobs in his district, completely ignoring the fact that there are 434 other districts in the country where people are looking desperately for work.
     
  15. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #15
    It's all politics, of course. Not enough tax cuts for the Republicans. And they don't want to investigate the all unaccounted $$$ that went to Iraq, the unfulfilled Halliburton contracts. The American taxpayer may have been screwed, but Halliburton (Cheney's cronies) sure made a killing from the Iraqi war.

    At least the stimulus bill has potential to help. But the pork in the bill bothers me big time.
     
  16. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #16
    Boehner fries my ass. I'm ashamed to admit he's from my state. :rolleyes:

    Possibly. The follow-up question is, do Obama and the Democrats have the cajones to raise taxes on the wealthy?

    Everyone predicted dire consequences when Clinton raised taxes on the wealthy, but instead we ended up with a surplus. That won't happen this time, of course, because we're dealing with way bigger numbers, but how many choices do you have?
     
  17. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #17
    Even the mega millionaires lost money, so how much can you tax them?

    We have to reform the system before we try to throw money at it. We are just flushing money down the toilet.
     
  18. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #18
    Isn't that part of the problem? Entrusting America's financial future to megamillionaires? Ever since Reagan the idea has been that the wealthy will always do what's best for the country. Perhaps it's time to bring back those 50% tax rates for the richest 5% and start killing off tax shelters.
     
  19. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #19
    I agree that the middle class should run the country and not the super rich. But the rich are the ones that have the power, it doesn't matter what side of the isle.
     
  20. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

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    #20
    I agree with the comment that we are basically sailing into uncharted waters with this type of package. However, if it hits at the right time (where the natural swing was going to occur), it should hopefully fast track the country. Given the 6-18 month time frame it will take for parts of the bill to have effect, I think/hope it may actually be hitting at the right time.

    That being said, I still have a bitter taste in my mouth about all of this. We're amassing trillions in debt which will take decades to take care of. We can't always count on being the top dog with someone like China itching to give us liquidity.

    As for what the republicans did, I see the typical partisan divide. We know that their voice was heard (making the bill go under the 800B mark), but they still shunned it. We can probably expect this to continue so they can persist in accusing the Obama administration of being full of it when it comes to reaching across the aisle.
     
  21. CalBoy macrumors 604

    CalBoy

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    #21
    I'm sure the Republicans didn't like the original bill, but they did get many concessions from the House, Senate, and final versions.

    What's more, the House and Senate GOP caucuses were threatening members by saying that a "yes" vote would cost them. The GOP as a party clearly did not want to put its support behind the bill.

    In the end, the GOP was essentially a part of a basic prisoner's dilemma.

    If they voted for it, and it worked, the Democrats would get all the credit and the GOP would still suffer in 2010 and 2012.

    If they voted for it, and it didn't work, both parties would be blamed and in the current political atmosphere, that's a mild advantage for the Democrats.

    If they voted against it, and it worked, the Democrats would get all the credit and the GOP would still suffer in 2010 and 2012.

    If they voted against it, and it didn't work, the GOP would be able to use the bill as a campaign issue and possibly make gains in 2010 or 2012.

    In either case, the best choice is to vote against the bill for the GOP, no matter how much of it is "Republican" in nature. It's simple politics, and I can't blame the GOP for being cautious.

    I do blame Obama for being naive, however. He knew this was going to happen (or he should have known), and the current stimulus bill is far more "tax cuts" oriented than he or Pelosi had wanted.
     
  22. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #22
    I mean Obama and Biden are wealth, but they aren't billionaires

    (thats true for other politicians as well, just example I came up with)
     
  23. MooneyFlyer macrumors 65816

    MooneyFlyer

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    #23
    Let's keep in mind that the Democrats had control of the House and the Senate for some time now. Yes there was a Republican President but he does not write the bills -- he signs / vetoes them.

    The system is complex for a reason. And, the President is the figurehead of the System. Right now the system (at least this part of it) is run by the Democrats. They can pass anything they want without regard for the Republicans and this is just part of life. If the system, as it stands today, doesn't work for the American people -- we will change how it is comprised. But, the basic system stays the same.

    Personally, I'm for a flat tax. Does that make me a Democrat or a Republican -- I'm not sure. I just am certain I paid my fair share plus some this year and will be attempting to take my chunk out of the newly acquired debt for the country.
     
  24. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #24
    At first, not much, you're right. But the rich will bounce back from this depression, the way everyone else eventually will, and then you would be able to collect more. The debt this bill is helping create isn't going away anytime soon.

    Well, not quite. The Dems have only had Congress since the 2006 election, and even then the Senate was a 50-50 split. They still don't have a filibuster-proof majority, which means they can't just pass anything they want.

    As you were saying...

     
  25. macfan881 thread starter macrumors 68020

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    Feb 22, 2006
    #25
    this is the thing that Drives me nuts the Republicans are bashing at this kind of stuff but yet some one point out in the last 8 years Bush has ever done anything like this in terms of bipartasan to get Democrats to get on something all i ever saw Bush doing was using the normal fear tatics that usaully come out of the repuplicans.
     

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