Republicans = Democrats

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by TSE, Aug 4, 2010.

  1. TSE macrumors 68030

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    #1
    I'm sorry but I need to let this one out. I'm 17 so I really don't have any say but this is just my observation.

    I am not a Republican, nor Democrat. I believe they are both completely the same thing, they just go about it in different ways.

    However, I remember in the Obama-McCain race where McCain's ads were very negative against Obama and said stuff that was personal, and a lot of MacRumors members got on his back about how wrong it was, and how Democrats never do anything like that and that's why the Republican Party is falling apart. I agreed with them in the fact that it was wrong at how many personal shots that the Republican Party took at Obama. (I personally believe McCain didn't really take the shots at Obama and didn't want Palin, but he was put into a corner by his Party and was forced to do it, but that's for another thread.)

    What I find interesting is this. As some of you know, Minnesotan politics is very different, so this might be just this state. But for the Democratic Farmer Labor Party, there are three candidates running against the Republican, Tom Emmers. Each one of their ads doesn't say a single thing they are going to do or anything to improve Minnesota, their ads just take personal shots at Tom Emmers.

    What I find funny is how one of Mark Dayton's ad attacks Tom Emmers in a somewhat irrelevant and contradictory way, he attacks Tom Emmers for having a DWI in his past and how irresponsible of a person he is, while he himself is a recovering alcoholic. While yeah, being an alcoholic isn't blatantly as bad as it, you can't attack a guy saying he's not fit for a job because he has an alcohol problem (which I really doubt Emmers currently has) when you yourself have had one in the past.

    This election is terrible. No good candidates at all. We should just write in Prince. :cool:

    Side story:

    A Matt Entenza representative person called me up at my home to tell me how Matt Entenza is going to strengthen our education unlike how Emmers wants to hurt our children. The rep said that Entenza is going to make it so every child reaches his/her potential. I asked him how Matt Entenza was going to, and the rep said that if you elect Entenza, it was guaranteed. So I asked him how he was going to do that once he's elected, I mean, how can one person make it so every child reaches his full potential. The rep just kept on avoiding my questions like that... it was funny!
     
  2. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #2
    Unfortunately, politicians have found that attack ads work.

    Here in Ohio, Republican John Kasich is running against incumbent Democrat Ted Strickland for governor. Kasich's commercials are full of office workers talking around the water cooler and bemoaning the loss of 400,000 jobs in Ohio since Strickland became governor. Yeah, like that was Strickland's fault, not the economy's. :rolleyes:

    (My wife and I actually have our own parody idea for that commercial. "Do you realize six people in our office have come down with cancer since Strickland became governor?" [actor shakes head despairingly])

    Yes, both parties are guilty, but from my own (admittedly biased) perspective, while both may go negative, Republicans take much greater liberties with the truth than Democrats do.
     
  3. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #3
    Welcome to the world of politics.

    If it makes you feel a little queasy, there is a bag located in the seat pocket in front of you.
     
  4. MattSepeta macrumors 65816

    MattSepeta

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    #4
    Not prince....

    Jesse, Jesse, Jesse!!!!!!

    But seriously, your right. The candidates for our MN gubernatorial race are terrible. I am voting for Tom Horner.
     
  5. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #5
    TSE- Tom Emmer is a frightening individual. The guy cozies up to people who advocate executing gay people. Read up:

    http://minnesotaindependent.com/58393/gop-linked-punk-rock-ministry-says-executing-gays-is-moral
     
  6. TSE thread starter macrumors 68030

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    #6
    Yeah Leekohler. Like I said, I am not a fan of Tom Emmer but nor am I a fan of the DFLers (Democratic Farmer Labor Party, Minnesota's own Democratic party).

    However, I find it just plain wrong that the DFLers want to tax "rich" people who make more than $70,000 a year. That's what Matt Entenza's representative on the phone told me. No matter how many kids you have to support, no matter if you work more hours a year to make that much, whatever. I just find that plain wrong.
     
  7. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #7
    The you have to decide what's more important to you, people's civil rights and freedoms (and in this case, lives), or money.
     
  8. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #8
    Well obviously...

    He's hardly anywhere close to being a reliable source - its probably a bunch of ********.

    It'd be like accepting what Obama had to say about John McCain in the last election at face value. Obviously he's not a reliable source on the matter.


    Fail :eek:.
     
  9. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #9
    That is a very unfair and inaccurate statement and actually surprised you wrote that
     
  10. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #10
    It's not at all. What's unfair about it? One candidate is for raising taxes, while another supports a group that advocates murdering gay people.

    What is unfair about my statement?
     
  11. MattSepeta macrumors 65816

    MattSepeta

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    #11
    Jeez

    Keeping what you earn is just as much a civil right as being allowed to marry. Actually, one could argue that it is more so, as it is a positive right.

    Taxing the wealthy is TAKING something from them.
    Not recognizing gay marriages is only PREVENTING them from doing something.

    Not saying its right, because it certainly isn't, but it is unfair to make that tired old comparison.

    OP: Keep thinking about this stuff!

    And Tom Emmer is a moron.
     
  12. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #12
    The way I read it was:

    Be a Democrat if you support people's civil rights and freedoms (and in this case, lives)

    Be a Republican if you support only financial aspects

    Hopefully that is not what you meant or implied and I just misinterpreted...

    To add my 2 cents.....I think anyone who strictly sticks to one party just because it is that party is doing an injustice to the system. You need to review the candidates and their respective stances yourself and go on that. No one is totally Democrat or totally Republican and as such, I give the best candidate in my mind the vote, even if he is not with the party I am affiliated with
     
  13. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #13
    Did you even read what we were talking about?

    The Republican candidate, Tom Emmer, actually directly supports a group that advocates the execution of gay people. That's pretty damn serious.
     
  14. freeny macrumors 68020

    freeny

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    #14
    Im curious as to why the wealthy shouldnt pay taxes?

    And not recognizing gay rights is the same as "taking" them away. These rights are given to them as Americans.
    Thats the same thing as saying taxing the wealthy is just preventing them from having more money.
    Sounds absurd doesnt it?
     
  15. Macaddicttt macrumors 6502a

    Macaddicttt

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    #15
    Wait, you bash Lee for being partisan when he doesn't mention a party in his post, then say that you need to go solely based on candidates, ignoring the fact that Lee's original post that you chastise him for is completely candidate-centric? :confused:

    Looks like you're the one caught in the Democrat-Republican duality.
     
  16. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #16
    I misinterpreted his post as one describing parties and not candiates
     
  17. MattSepeta macrumors 65816

    MattSepeta

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    #17
    Of course the wealthy should be taxed! Just not selectively more than anybody else, IM(evil-libertarian)O.

    You clearly do not understand the fundamental concept of give/take. Lets say I bring home 5 chickens. You then tell me you are going to take 3 of them or you will put me in a box for a year. You have actively taken something from me.

    Yes, I read what you were talking about, and I even participated in the original thread about Emmer and Target donations. I was responding to your us/them statement:

    "The you have to decide what's more important to you, people's civil rights and freedoms (and in this case, lives), or money. "

    That is such a terrible way of trying to frame it for a 17 year old and you know it. Tom Emmer does not support killing anybody. Hes a dirtbag, but he does not support killing anybody. Tom Emmer posed for pictures with a stupid group and went on a radio show.

    If you want to play this guilt-by-association game, then Pres Obama must believe "The government lied about Pearl Harbor too. They knew the Japanese were going to attack" and "America's chickens are coming home to roost" and "The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color." because he attended the church of Wright and knew him and has been seen with him.

    But that's just plain crazy!
     
  18. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #18
    OH BS! Everyone has to pay taxes as members of society. Stop it with this "robbery" crap. It really is pathetic.

    Which is the case with these two candidates. Emmer has shown that he is actively anti-gay rights. That he has stated himself very clearly.

    Emmer has not made an effort to distance himself from that group, has given them money and continues to associate with them.

    Except for the fact that Obama denounced all those things and ditched the church. Emmer has done no such thing, and in fact called these people "nice".
     
  19. MattSepeta macrumors 65816

    MattSepeta

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    #19
    Of course everybody pays taxes!!! Why do you get the idea that I think they shouldn't? What are you even talking about?

    I am describing how property (my earnings) rights are a civil liberty that is arguably on par with gay rights.

    Taking more money from someone based on the fact that they have more of it could be, and is by many, viewed as a violation of their rights.


    Re: Emmer, I am not really arguing with you on this one. That groups is scum, and Emmer is scum as well. However, it is incredibly unfounded to say he "supports killing gay people." Until he goes out and says he wants to kill gay people, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and not put words in his mouth.

    Re: Obama... He only denounced it because he HAD to. Was he denouncing it when he was a member of the church? No.... He attended the church....

    Edit: Ill elaborate on my analogy: I bring home 5 chickens. You take 3 on account that I have 5 already, taking 3 cant hurt me. Then you take only one chicken from my neighbor who only had 3. That is unfair, and a violation of my rights, because you discriminated against me due to the amount of chickens I had.

    Fair? The guy who only had one chicken taken from him sure thinks so.
     
  20. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #20
    Except that your little story is a BS comparison. The wealthy certainly do NOT pay a larger percentage of their income in taxes compared to the middle and lower class. That is what you're trying to claim and it's absolutely false.

    If Obama had to denounce his church to be believed, then Emmer should have to denounce this group. The fact that he's been called on it and hasn't addressed it, is very telling.
     
  21. MattSepeta macrumors 65816

    MattSepeta

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    #21
    Obama did his song and dance to get elected. Like I said, Obama was not denouncing Wright when he was a member of the church 5 years ago. Only when it gets blasted into the spotlight and turns into a roadbump.

    Oh, and every single tax bracket I looked at begged to differ from your assertion that wealthy do not pay a larger percentage of their income.

    [​IMG]

    Gee, it almost looks like they are paying over three times more percent of their income...

    If you want to talk capital gains and investments, that's a different story, even though no one is stopping poor people from investing.
     
  22. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #22
    I'm talking every tax there is, including sales and any other tax, not just federal income taxes.

    BTW- I still see nothing on that chart that is taxing anyone over half their income, like you suggested in your story. So your story is still crap.
     
  23. itcheroni macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    TSE, I know exactly where you're coming from. I used to be very liberal up until a year or two ago. I used to be very critical of just the Republican party but now I view both major parties as pretty much the same.

    I am now of the opinion that these cycles are inevitable. Societies shift between desiring freedom from an overburdening state presence and a desire to have a large state presence take care of their needs. Eventually, we will head back the other direction when things don't work. But these cycles take a long time. The 20th century was our century as the U.S. had a 70-80 yeah bull market, so it is natural for us develop the feeling of entitlement. This explains why we are so disillusioned by the current economy. And we feel that certain laws of economics don't apply to us, which is very dangerous.

    I think the economy is going to keep getting worse for the next 5-7 years at which point we will hit a severe bottom. Then our country will keep bouncing along at that level for decades. Then, at some point, the people will want the other kind of government.
     
  24. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #24
    Don't worry- as soon as we have another Republican president, you'll remember the difference and be very liberal again. People seem to have very short memories and forget just how awful Bush was.
     
  25. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #25
    So, imagine you have one chicken, now should you keep that chicken and hope it produces enough eggs to keep you alive, or should you give that chicken away with the hope that eventually you'll get two chickens.

    Such is the state of the working poor who don't have the disposable income to benefit from capital gains or other investment vehicles.


    Interesting point. I guess I hope we can become Siddhartha: rather than swinging between prolifigacy and aestheticism, we find a middle path. I don't think tuning out is the answer.
     

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