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Reviewing the 2018 15" MBP vs my old 2015 15" MBP

Your 2015 feels “sluggish” in web browsing?

Is it damaged or something?

Mine feels about as snappy as I could even imagine.
 
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turbineseaplane said:
That makes sense for Apple, not the customer necessarily.

The customer would usually be best served by a tool that most closely, natively, caters to their needs.

I don't care what's good for Apple, do you?
Click to expand...
yeah, that means 6 different macbook pro models for each size tho.
 
I have a max-ed out 2015 MBP. I figured it was long in the tooth, bought a maxed-out 2018. Returned it. Best purchase return I've ever made.

Cons for 2018 model:

No MagSafe: while migrating data from my 2015, my cat jumped up, caught on the 2018 USB-C cable, almost pulled it off the desk, ruining a $5,000 machine within 3 hours of ownership.

No SD port: I have 1.25 TB of space on my 1TB 2015, because I keep a 256GB JetDrive in the SD card slot. I spent $5K on a new MBP, and had LESS storage, with the 1TB drive.

Massive, pointless, error-prone trackpad: For literally NO reason. I mean... WHY?

Fan noise: My i9 Vega 20 was WAY louder at doing normal tasks than my 2015.

Awful keyboard: Loud, uncomfortable, didn't even have it long enough to experience it's true awfulness (multiple ghost key hits, breakdowns, etc.)

Awful touchbar: For the same reasons you all said.

No HDMI port. No DisplayPort. Dongle hell with my monitors.

Literally would not even run Chrome. Instant crash. Reinstalled time and again. No go.




Pros for 2018:

Space Grey looked cool!



Returning the 2018 was like Christmas. I got a way better computer with my 2015... and FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS.

It's almost worth buying the 2018 to return it, it was that enjoyable!
 
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@Flabasha

Also, with a 2015 you can grab a $15 Sintech adapter and upgrade your internal storage with one of the many great, affordable, third party NVMe options.

I know "upgrade" is a dirty word around Cupertino these days.

To Tim the word "upgrade" sounds just like "lost revenue from a missed opportunity to gouge"
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Flabasha said:
It's almost worth buying the 2018 to return it, it was that enjoyable!
Click to expand...

lmao - that made me laugh..
 
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My Early 2015 13 inch is chugging right along just fine, still running it with Sierra, too. Last fall I got the display fixed because of the lamination peeling issue and it looks good as new. I noticed after I got it back though, it kept freezing and hanging; especially this week, I had about 5 crashes. I thought the Apple store broke something, but it turns out all I needed to do was repair permissions and I have not experienced a single freeze since.

I'm excited about the rumored 16.5 inch though, but with the other rumors of a potential transition to A-Series, I'm reluctant to choose a Mac over the next 3 years. As much as I enjoy macOS, I am likely to pick up a Surface Book 3 or Laptop 3 when that comes out and wait until the dust settles before I replace my Mac.
 
Actually, I'm ok with many things that other members see as cons.

What I'm ok with:
- Keyboard typing : I'm ok with typing experience, but still perfer 2015 keyboard
- USB-c adapter : much more convenient since I can connect the power to both side. Magsafe is stil more elegant though

However, the problems:
- Keyboard reliability : no excuse, most frustrating issue i have with a new MBP.
- touchbar : If Apple added this as extra strip, I'd welcomed it, but no physical esc and function keys? omg.
- hardware spec : MBP retina was noble when first came out, but MBP nowaday should have a 4k UHD retina already.
It should have come with VEGA 20 as base.
SSD upgrade at crazy price. come on Apple. We are not living in 2000s anymore.
 
I had been back and forth with the idea of getting the latest MBP, even had a BTO 13" on order, but couldn't bring myself to go through with it because of price and issues, and ended up with a like-new 2015 15" 2.8GHz 16GB made just this last year (no dGPU on these recent production, but that's OK, one less potential problem (coming from a MBP 2011 17" so you may understand ;-), still some warranty on it, only 13 cycles on the battery, boxed and all, and at less than $1,000. This will at least hold me over till I feel comfortable with APPLE, or I decide to go another route, and I couldn't be happier.

It may not be 6-core, and super fast, but it seems to do everything well enough, and runs cool in basic use. The screen is great, keyboard a comfortable [real] joy to use and I didn't have to 'get use' to something different or with potential problems down the line. All the ports I use and need - USB and SD card, mag-safe, yes! It still looks great, and its a proven reliable computer design (I don't need headaches).

If I was into heavy video editing the 2018 would have been more tempting, modern USB-C thunderbolt has its advantages (with all USB-C - not), and the more compact 2018 design is cool (but doesn't run so).

Now I just need to up-grade this 256GB SSD, and that is my one worry spot (non-APPLE proprietary can have their issues), but atleast I can do it! Otherwise, as I said, for me this was actually a no-brainer for what I got, my use, and money saved.
 
Agree with every single word!
I am fine with my 2015 rMPB 13 inch and I WILL NOT BUY any of new macbooks, until they fix faulty keyboards!
I would wait untill the redesign (probably end of 2020), and if Apple continue to make crap, I will go for surface laptop.
[doublepost=1551331316][/doublepost]
elmarjazz said:
I had been back and forth with the idea of getting the latest MBP, even had a BTO 13" on order, but couldn't bring myself to go through with it because of price and issues, and ended up with a like-new 2015 15" 2.8GHz 16GB made just this last year (no dGPU on these recent production, but that's OK, one less potential problem (coming from a MBP 2011 17" so you may understand ;-), still some warranty on it, only 13 cycles on the battery, boxed and all, and at less than $1,000. This will at least hold me over till I feel comfortable with APPLE, or I decide to go another route, and I couldn't be happier.

It may not be 6-core, and super fast, but it seems to do everything well enough, and runs cool in basic use. The screen is great, keyboard a comfortable [real] joy to use and I didn't have to 'get use' to something different or with potential problems down the line. All the ports I use and need - USB and SD card, mag-safe, yes! It still looks great, and its a proven reliable computer design (I don't need headaches).

If I was into heavy video editing the 2018 would have been more tempting, modern USB-C thunderbolt has its advantages (with all USB-C - not), and the more compact 2018 design is cool (but doesn't run so).

Now I just need to up-grade this 256GB SSD, and that is my one worry spot (non-APPLE proprietary can have their issues), but atleast I can do it! Otherwise, as I said, for me this was actually a no-brainer for what I got, my use, and money saved.
Click to expand...
Bro I can understand how u feel. I wanted to buy 2018 tb 13inch model, but waited - and as I have expected, kb is such a fault as 2016-17 models. Got myself apple ref 2015 13 inch pro, and very happy with it (despite JIS kb which layout is awful, but I wll get used to I think!)
 
I returned it. No regrets. Really, the only reason why I wanted the 2018 was the True tone display. When I realized I could emulate it manually with Night Shift, that was the final nail in the coffin.

After going back to the 2015, I'm realizing what I've missed:
  1. The keyboard. The 2008 - 2015 keyboards are widely regarded as the best EVER on a laptop, and it's very clear why.
  2. No Touchbar. Hooray for escape keys and not having to worry about accidentally hitting the top keys!
  3. SD card slot.
  4. USB-A slots.
  5. A reasonably sized trackpad
  6. HDMI port! I'm bolding this because of how important it is. I didn't realize how much I used the HDMI port until it wasn't there. I refused to buy an adapter just in principle.
So I expected the Magsafe to USB-c change to be a bigger one. Honestly, it's not that big of a deal. Because USB-c is such a thin connector, it effectively amounts to the same thing as a magnetic connector.

I can't help but think about this video from Steve Jobs
It's very clearly what's going on with Apple now. They are making $3000 fashion accessories not laptops. The late model MacBook Pros are powerful, but impractical in so many ways. Sure many of the issues can be fixed by buying a plugin dongle, but we shouldn't have to. And the touchbar needs to be an option, not forced on every user.

Please, Apple, just release a MacBook Pro Classic. Because you know what's crazy about all this? Lots of people, myself included, would be willing to pay EXTRA for a 2015-style MBP with updated internals. But you're just too dang proud to do that because it would be an admission that people don't like the new MacBook Pros.
 
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There's more to it than just the space grey color. For instance, the speakers are much better on 13 2017 vs 13 2015. I also had 15 2017, and those are even noticeably better than 13 2017.

Then I prefer the bigger trackpad (on 13), the 2 fans vs 1 (on 13), noticeably lighter laptop, USB-C, the touch bar and even the new keyboard. But (!) there does seem to be a reliability issue with the keyboard, as one key on my 13 2017 started to double register. Because of this issue, it would be hard for me to recommend a 2016-2017 machine for someone who completely relies on it and has no backup devices. Maybe 2018 have lesser issues with the keyboard, but from what I read, this problem still exists to some degree.
 
OP I couldn't agree more with what you wrote. To me, the keyboards on the new MacBook Pro's made are criminally bad compared to the previous generations. This is Tim Cook at his best, form over function. Either that, or without Jobs there is no one to keep Ive in check and he's making horrible design decisions.

The Touch Bar is worthless. Again, pretty to look at, but useless in function. Touch ID is great but they could implement that without the stupid Touch Bar.

Removing Magsafe is one of the dumbest decisions Apple has ever made. There is no defending it and no argument for it. It was stupid and a horrible decision that someone should be fired for.

I also hate that they removed the glowing Apple Logo. Yes its a dumb cosmetic thing, but it was iconic. Again, incredibly dumb decision by Apple.

The good news is that with the myriad of problems this design has, I can't possibly see Apple making another one in its current form. Here's hoping they release another great laptop and not the mess that they've released in its current form. Its beautiful to look at yes, but a nightmare to use (in my opinion).
 
Well said. I had similar experience. Between the 2018 and my current 2013 MBP 15, I chose the 2013 to keep.
We all know what is going to be popular, the 2015 MBP 15 chassis with up-to-date components. Apple know that but they won't do it.
1. Admitting the failure for the past 3 years is just too much to swallow. It takes a true leader, which we don't have at this time.
2. With the shrinking market share in both phones and computers, Apple needs to further squeeze each costumer they can get. Serviceable logic board with replaceable parts? No way. Upgradeable SSD? You get fired for suggesting that. Look at the new Mac Mini, no space for a NVME slot? The greed is pathetic.
3. Dongle is a billion dollar business for Apple. Donglelife is here to stay.

Therefore this year Apple may release the all new MBP 16, however I don't expect it address any of the above-mentioned issues. I will be delighted if it does.
 
mossme89 said:
I have been an apple fan for 12 years, wbich is about half my life.

I have fond memories of fiddling around with the 1 core Toshiba laptop I had at the time, installing 10.5 Leopard on it so I could use apps like iMovie and iPhoto. I got an iPod Touch a few months after it came out, and remember showing it to people and how it just blew their minds how well the touchscreen worked. I remember installing the iPhone OS 2.0 betas, all the way upto the Golden Master. I even remember waking up at 4AM to check if the App Store was live yet on the day it went live and witnessing the app going from “can not connect” to showing the App Store. I remember working 3 jobs during the summer of 2009 so I could buy a MacBook Pro. And I did.

That MacBook Pro lasted me until 2015 with few issues (I went through about 4 hard drives because I have a habit of walking around with my computer but once I switched to an SSD it was great). I even was able to upgrade the RAM from 2GB to 6GB. Then in the fall of 2015, the screen died and I decided to let it die for good.

So then I picked up a mid-2014 model which worked great. Sold that and got a mid-2015 model shortly after because 256GB was too small for me. I used that 2015 until a few weeks ago. I picked up a refurb 2.6Ghz 15” 2018 MBP.

My point is that I am very much an Apple fanboy. Or, I was. In many ways, the new models post 2015 are depressing. Depressing because they are a clear departure from what has made Apple laptop so great for so many years.

For example:

  • There is no start up chime anymore
  • The Apple logo is just a solid metal thing, it doesn't light up.
  • The touch bar
  • USB-c
  • The butterfly keyboard
  • No magsafe 2 so no magnetic charging

Some of these things are symbolic in that they are not big things themselves but they represent a departure from what’s made MacBook Pros so great for all these years. It’s like they are trying to kill their fanbase by 1000 paper cuts.

Things I like:

  1. The display is better than the 2015 model. I’m not sure if it’s the True Tone or what, but looking at the 2 side by side looking at the same things, the 2018 looks much better. I actually thought it was a higher resolution at first. Was surprised to see that it wasn’t.
  2. It’s fast. Faster than my 2015 even in real-world usage.
  3. It’s pretty
  4. The big trackpad.

Things I’m meh about:

  1. The keyboard. I’m being nice here. It isn’t as awful as previous generations, but if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. The keyboards from 2008 -2015 were so good that it changed the entire laptop industry. Before the unibody MBP its’ keyboard, laptop keyboards were 1 single piece with the buttons mashed together. Remember how keys fell off, you had to replace the whole thing? After the unibody MBP came out, laptop makers started copying it. The butterfly keyboards are reinventing the wheel. Why? Marketing people.
  2. USB-c. Not as bad as I thought but still a PITA

Things I hate:

  1. The Touch Bar. I really tried to give this a fair shot. But it’s pointless, the Touch Bar is just annoying. Going back to the 2015 model, I realized that my typing style had changed to compensate for the touchbar. I kept accidentally tapping the escape key so I had to change my hand placement. Why is this stupid thing FORCED on anyone? Surely it just increases costs for Apple and decreases margins. I think we know why. Because if they made it optional, very few people would get it, and that would bruise the egos of people over in marketing.
  2. Thermal throttling. It hasn’t been that bad but there seems to be no rhyme or reason to throttling. I’ve had it throttle as low as 80C. And it throttles down to 800Mhz, making it basically unusable. For a $2400 machine, that is not okay.
  3. No card reader. Okay fine, USB-c it is. But why the heck did they have to remove the card reader?
  4. The price. Despite these issues., I still like the new MBP. But I can't justify the price. $2400 refurbished is a ripoff for a machine with this many flaws. Time will tell how reliable the 2018 models are, but given the issues with the 2016 and 2017 models, I am not optimistic. And that's just unacceptable for the price point.

So what would I suggest for Apple? Take the iPhone SE approach. Release a “MacBook Pro CE” (Classic Edition). Take the shell of the 2015 MBP and re-release it with updated internals. The extra bulk will help with heat dissipation, it allows Apple to save face, and the margins will still be good. Sell it for $1999 and it will become a best seller overnight. Please, Apple. Please.

-------------------------------------------------

3/2 Update:

I returned it. No regrets. Really, the only reason why I wanted the 2018 was the True tone display. When I realized I could emulate it manually with Night Shift, that was the final nail in the coffin.

After going back to the 2015, I'm realizing what I've missed:
  1. The keyboard. The 2008 - 2015 keyboards are widely regarded as the best EVER on a laptop, and it's very clear why.
  2. No Touchbar. Hooray for escape keys and not having to worry about accidentally hitting the top keys!
  3. SD card slot.
  4. USB-A slots.
  5. A reasonably sized trackpad
  6. HDMI port! I'm bolding this because of how important it is. I didn't realize how much I used the HDMI port until it wasn't there. I refused to buy an adapter just in principle.
So I expected the Magsafe to USB-c change to be a bigger one. Honestly, it's not that big of a deal. Because USB-c is such a thin connector, it effectively amounts to the same thing as a magnetic connector.

I can't help but think about this video from Steve Jobs
It's very clearly what's going on with Apple now. They are making $3000 fashion accessories not laptops. The late model MacBook Pros are powerful, but impractical in so many ways. Sure many of the issues can be fixed by buying a plugin dongle, but we shouldn't have to. And the touchbar needs to be an option, not forced on every user.

Please, Apple, just release a MacBook Pro Classic. Because you know what's crazy about all this? Lots of people, myself included, would be willing to pay EXTRA for a 2015-style MBP with updated internals. But you're just too dang proud to do that because it would be an admission that people don't like the new MacBook Pros.
Click to expand...

I got a maxed out 2015 rMBP as soon as it was released. I have had it all these years without a single issue. Sometimes I think about upgrading but then I read threads like this. I’m keeping it. It’s a great machine.
 
I thought the touchbar is a fun, practical, thing to have. I was playing with it at Best Buy and used the touchbar word suggestions to type up an essay in Text Edit. It was so fast, intuitive to use. I don't see why people shrug, and/or, even dismiss it. If, you think about it, it replaced the F keys which most people don't even use. I say, the touchbar is a touchdown in my book. LOL!
 
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namethisfile said:
I thought the touchbar is a fun, practical, thing to have. I was playing with it at Best Buy and used the touchbar word suggestions to type up an essay in Text Edit. It was so fast, intuitive to use. I don't see why people shrug, and/or, even dismiss it. If, you think about it, it replaced the F keys which most people don't even use. I say, the touchbar is a touchdown in my book. LOL!
Click to expand...

Lmfao - just made my night with this post.
 
namethisfile said:
I thought the touchbar is a fun, practical, thing to have. I was playing with it at Best Buy and used the touchbar word suggestions to type up an essay in Text Edit. It was so fast, intuitive to use. I don't see why people shrug, and/or, even dismiss it. If, you think about it, it replaced the F keys which most people don't even use. I say, the touchbar is a touchdown in my book. LOL!
Click to expand...
I can't determine whether this is serious talking or sarcastic. o_O
 
What's annoying more than anything is the fact that the escape key is on the touchbar. Put a physical escape key on the keyboard and it's less annoying. But I found I was CONSTANTLY hitting escape by mistake.
 
MimicBunion972 said:
I can't determine whether this is serious talking or sarcastic. o_O
Click to expand...

Both?

Also, to go on further, the F in the F keys stands for 'Function.' Apple just did the obvious and most logical thing thing they could do, which is that they made it more "functional," IMO.
 
namethisfile said:
Both?

Also, to go on further, the F in the F keys stands for 'Function.' Apple just did the obvious and most logical thing thing they could do, which is that they made it more "functional," IMO.
Click to expand...

“Functional” in my opinion is having keys in the same place when you want them... I’ll keep my 2015- at least until I see what this years lineup holds.
 
ScreenSavers said:
“Functional” in my opinion is having keys in the same place when you want them... I’ll keep my 2015- at least until I see what this years lineup holds.
Click to expand...

I don't think that is the correct definition of what makes it "functional." The F keys functions changes whatever program you are in. The Touchbar just made it even more functional by the virtue of being "digital." And, I believe, you can put the F keys back in the touchbar if you really want to, anyway.\

And, if you noticed, before the touchbar, the F keys served triple funtions in MacOS for quick key commands to bring up spaces, for example.

And, the Function keys were global. So, Apple made the F keys global and local and the only way to do that was to make it "digital."

The only question is if Apple will release a separate KB with touchbar since that's how, IMO, functional it is.

And, upgrading from a 2015 to a the new MBP's just for the touchbar doesn't make sense and no one would do that. The touchbar is just something new MBP owners get as a "freebie" no biggie thing. But, not something one would upgrade to just for the touchbar alone. LOL.
 
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