Rick Santorum: JFK’s 1960 Speech Made Me Want to Throw Up

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by quagmire, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. quagmire macrumors 603

    quagmire

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    #1
    Disgusting......

    Sorry, but separation of church and state needs to be absolute. You're running a country filled with people who have different religious beliefs. His and other religious beliefs cannot be used to run a country and create laws due to the differences.

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...um-jfks-1960-speech-made-me-want-to-throw-up/
     
  2. eric/ Guest

    eric/

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    #2
    At the very least they need to be separate. Though I advocate abolishing religion in general through peaceful means and helping people to realize that their belief without reason is illogical and unnecessary.
     
  3. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #3
    We're a 1000 years away from a society that has a true separation of church and state. Throwbacks like Bush, Santorum etc and their brainwashed sheep are of course responsible. Sickening when you think about it.
     
  4. paddy macrumors 6502a

    paddy

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  5. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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  6. niuniu, Feb 26, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2012
  7. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #7
    I went and re-read the first amendment and to be honest the forefathers didn't want religion to mix in with the governing of the states and the federal government.

    Santorum is nutz.
     
  8. jackc macrumors 65816

    jackc

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  9. LostSoul80 macrumors 68020

    LostSoul80

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  10. barkomatic macrumors 68040

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    #10
    It seems that with each Presidential election, the GOP gets increasingly overt in its desire to turn the U.S. into a Christian theocracy.
     
  11. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #11
  12. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #12
    hey rick,

    **** YOUR CHURCH.

    sincerely,

    Americans who don't believe in your fairy tales.

    You have no right to take your fairy tale book and use it to try to push your twisted, stone age beliefs on the general population.
     
  13. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #13
  14. *LTD*, Feb 26, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012

    *LTD* macrumors G4

    *LTD*

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    #14
    What's more disturbing than Santorum's views?

    The fact that he's got a loyal audience.

    Blame (also) the folks who are giving this person fertile ground in which to sow his seed. (hehe)
     
  15. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #15
    Spray and walk away.
     
  16. Rooskibar03 macrumors 65816

    Rooskibar03

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    #16
    Have many liberals and anti religious types actually ever read the 1st amendment you love to quote so much?

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

    So how about some history.

    Congressional records from 1789 make clear the intent of the first amendment
    "We do not want in America what we had in Great Britain: we don’t want one denomination running the nation. We will not all be Catholics, or Anglicans, or any other single denomination. We do want God’s principles, but we don’t want one denomination running the nation"

    In 1801 the Danbury Baptist Association of Danbury send a letter to Thomas Jefferson concerned there to be national denomination. In January of 1802 Jefferson responded and assured them "The First Amendment has erected a wall of separation between church and state" but that was a small part of the letter.

    That "wall" you all love to wrap yourselves in was intended to protect the church from government control. If you read the entire letter you will see the full intent of the statement. The letters intent, when read in its entirety, was upheld in court until 1947 when for the first time it was cited only with the 8 words many people today believe today to be part of the first amendment "a wall of separation of church and state" durning the case of Everson v. Board of Education. The court has continued to utilize this verbiage and slowly the original message has been twisted into what we have today.

    There are those trying to rewrite history while the rest of us will stand and not allow you to change this country into something it was never intended to be. This country was founded on religious principles and a belief in God.

    Take your separation of church and state and anti religious sediments to Iran or some other middle eastern nation and let me know how that works out for you.

    I know the left has a distain for things like facts or history so I'm sure this will be flamed into oblivion...
     
  17. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #17
    There is really no need to abolish religion.

    It is only necessary to make it financially stand on it's own two legs, just like any other Corporation. (Which are people too, remember?)

    It will be crushed by the massive debt, for it generates nothing but hate.
     
  18. CaptMurdock macrumors 6502a

    CaptMurdock

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    #18
    Yes, lots of times, thank you very much. To paraphrase Jack Nicholson, go sell your Smug over at hannity(dot)com. We're full up here.
    I await with keen interest what you think those "principles" are, exactly.

    It was also intended to protect the government from church control. You can't have religious freedom if every other religion (that is not The One True Faith As Recognized By The State) automatically makes them second-class citizens.

    I think my Irony Detector just blew a gasket. :rolleyes:
     
  19. quagmire, Feb 26, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012

    quagmire thread starter macrumors 603

    quagmire

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    #19
    I am not anti-religion. I am against religion having an influence in our government due to the fact not everyone follows that one religion or follows it to such a degree that others do. Our government needs to be religion-neutral.

    I am for protecting the rights of people to believe in what they do. But, they can't take their religious beliefs and use it to govern us.

    While the founding fathers may have built that wall to protect the church from government, I am in favor of the way the wall of separation of church and state has evolved into a two way wall instead of a one way wall. Church has no business in government and government has no business in church( unless it's about protecting a persons rights, etc). It's like how the founding fathers believed every man was equal and yet believed slavery was ok and women were not equal, but it evolved to not allowing slavery and women being equal.

    That is the great thing about this country. We have the power to evolve on what the founding fathers built for us. If we couldn't evolve the things they built to help keep up with modern times, we would be no better than Iran or other religious based countries who strictly abide by something that was written hundreds, thousands of years ago in a different era than today.
     
  20. MorphingDragon, Feb 26, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012

    MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #20
    The only way to ensure that America is not run by one Denomination is to seperate state from Church. Otherwise the country will be run by whatever denomination is popular in Congress or that of the President.
     
  21. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #21

    There are Afghans trying to kill American soldiers over the Koran burning. They believe they're following god's principles.
     
  22. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #22
    Actually, having a "New Age" Christian president would be kind of interesting. If only for entertainment value.
     
  23. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #23
    What's surprising to me about this is the lack of historical context.

    In 1960 it was unthinkable to elect a Catholic as POTUS due to their "almost fanatical devotion to the Pope." (apologies to Monty Python). This speech was critical in making JFK electable.

    I guess this is one way that Santorum, in particular, doesn't want to take us back to the 1950s.

    B
     
  24. Sedulous, Feb 26, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012

    Sedulous macrumors 68020

    Sedulous

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    #24
    So aside from what others have already pointed out as flaws in this kind of thinking, the problem is that Franklin obviously had a better understanding of what framework the Constitution was intended to establish. This is no different than having a time machine to go back as ask the founding fathers what they meant. Clearly they meant that while people are free to exercise their own religious beliefs, they are not to be a consideration in law. You can twist or try to interpret the 1st amendment anyway you like, but obviously you would be at odds with the very people that wrote it.
     
  25. eric/ Guest

    eric/

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    #25
    I fail to see how that has any relevancy to the atrocities committed by religion and the inherent irrationality that dictates its existence.
     

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