Riddle me this re: illegal immigrants...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mcdj, Nov 9, 2016.

  1. mcdj, Nov 9, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2016

    mcdj macrumors G3

    mcdj

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    #1
    Can one of you more reasoned and intelligent Trumpsters (I assume there must be at least one) please explain to me how kicking out immigrants helps the economy? Certainly Mr. Trump was unable to articulate it, or much else, beyond "kick em out".

    So how does it work? How does it help?

    Currently at around 8 million, illegals are 5% of the work force. They are doing the jobs no one wants, for below minimum wage.

    While I don't condone abusing labor, I don't understand how getting rid of them will create jobs or rejuvenate industry.

    If you kick out all the illegals, the legals will take their jobs, but will demand 2-3x the pay. The cost of every thing will go up and no one will be able to afford anything we might actually start manufacturing again.

    And small business who rely on cheap labor will start dropping like flies, taking with them lots of jobs held by legal citizens further up the the food chain.

    I also find it fascinating that the vast majority of people who came out to vote for Trump and his no-trade platform are the same people who stampede Walmart on Black Friday, where of course nothing for sale is made in America. Take away trade and Walmart is empty. Fill it full of American made goods and no one will be able to afford them, least of all the people who made them.

    Help me understand. Donald never could.
     
  2. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #2
    Illegal and legal immigrants steal jobs from Americans. It's that simple.
     
  3. mcdj thread starter macrumors G3

    mcdj

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    #3
    K thanks for the parrot reply. Anyone else want to take a stab at actually addressing my points?
     
  4. EnderBeta macrumors 6502

    EnderBeta

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    #4
    No explanation needed. They are illegals and by their very nature parasitic since they take from us but don't give anything back in return. Why should we give their kids and education, healthcare, welfare, ect.

    The free ride is over.
     
  5. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #5
    I would reply with something reasoned and intelligent, but the quota has already been filled, and I'm not sure a Leftist would understand it.

    So, there is no such thing as a job nobody wants, only jobs people are unwilling to do for a menial amount of pay.

    Sure the cost of a tomato may go up $.10, I don't think that's going to break the bank.
     
  6. EnderBeta macrumors 6502

    EnderBeta

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    #6
    Oh no that isn't how this works. You don't get to reject answers until you get the one you want. He explained it and that is it.
     
  7. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #7
    Nothing is made in America because the previous administrations basically sold the country to China.

    And Trump said several times that he would first deport and then immediately reimport eligible immigrants the legal way.

    Kinda like a roundabout way to an amnesty ;)

    After the wall is built of course.
     
  8. EnderBeta macrumors 6502

    EnderBeta

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    #8
    It makes sense. Because in the importation process we can screen and pick out the ones we want and bench the losers. They also will pay taxes and contribute to our society and in return get the benefits of what our society provides to it's people.

    However the importation should be mitigated by allowing our people we have right now right of first pick on jobs open and available unless of course the other person has more qualifying skills.
     
  9. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #9
    Yes we see Americans out in the fields all the time.
     
  10. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #10
    From what I've read, some people believe it would hurt the economy. First of all, its not true that illegals don't give anything back to the community. They pay sales tax on everything they buy. Second of all, restaurants that hire illegals would be hurt by having to pay more for legal workers. Prices would go up, that could hurt business. Also, migrant workers pick our fruits and vegetables, jobs Americans absolutely don't want, proven time and time again when college students and others try to work the field, they don't last very long. These illegals also pay rent to someone, that's got to help. And finally, how much would it cost to round them up and ship em out?
    On the other hand, they are illegal.
     
  11. mcdj thread starter macrumors G3

    mcdj

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    #11
    Ok guys, we'll see. Maybe it will work out. But I think the citizens young enough to do the menial jobs in this country are way too spoiled and lazy to actually do them once the immigrants are gone. They're too busy trying to be YouTube stars and taking selfies to actually do some work.
     
  12. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #12
    A nation works through certain processes, and assumes that everyone is a full member of the nation. Everyone is called to pay taxes for example, and everyone is called to "give back". Age 17-35 are even called to arms if needed.
    If you introduce illegals in a way that is out of control (you will always have some illegals) you have some members that not only are not full members of the community, be national or local, but also are not called to pay back the system (=taxes) and/or to help when needed (=selective service).
    The fact that illegals are paid so low is because they can squeeze every penny out of their job without any taxable expense. If you take into account everything, an illegal's $10/hr is worth more than a legal $15/hr. This completely destroy the competition, and damages the cost of living.
    There is also another factor. You claim that "they are doing the jobs no one wants", which is a pretty broad statement that no one proves. Obviously if you talk to a kid in college, going for his Bachelor, yeah. He doesn't really want to flip burgers for $5/hr. However, for many low-income families - especially in black neighborhoods - those $5/hr job can make the difference between life and death, between getting out of a bad place or not, between leaving crime or not. As of today, someone growing up in a poor neighborhood won't be able to find that $5/hr job.
    By "removing" those 8 million illegals, you will give many people the opportunity to fill those jobs. They might not be filled, who knows, but the opportunity will be there. A $5/hr job held for six month is a job history that can lead to a $7/hr job. Then to a $10/hr job and so on. It might lead to GED and/or college education with scholarship and so on.
    Let me add another layer. Illegal immigrants are a damage to legal immigrants. Legal immigrants tend to come in to work, pay their dues, be adopted, and help the community. But they often need low paying jobs just to settle in. Or they need a good immigratory environment where you don't have to wait forever just to be passed on by someone who broke the law on day one. I, for one, encourage immigration. I want immigration in the US, I want to simplify the current system, and the US probably need more immigrants. But it has to be controlled, and it has to be done awarding the best individuals you can find, those who obeyed the laws of the land, and those who really want to work within a whole new community.
    Of course the above is a necessary oversimplification of a much more complex problem, but it should answer your questions at least in part.
     
  13. mcdj thread starter macrumors G3

    mcdj

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    #13
    way too reasonable and thought out! how dare you not adhere to bombastic rhetoric!
     
  14. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #14
    I think what the trumpeters want is Americans working those jobs at the illegal wage level.
     
  15. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #15
    Take liberal arts students for picking oranges.
    Nobody needs their degrees and they need the money.
     
  16. EnderBeta macrumors 6502

    EnderBeta

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    #16
    If it paid a living wage you would. We'll never see that as long as illegals are paid peanuts.
     
  17. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #17
    right cause they are all lazy. this is a respnse nut backed by facts but ignorance and hate. often they pay taxes they buy goods and services they supply a workforce that may not be filled by anyone else. America was built with cheap immigrant labor.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 9, 2016 ---
    kind of like raising wages would??
     
  18. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #18
    They wouldn't last a day. No safe spaces in the fields.
     
  19. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #19
    nope farmers have tried it they could not get good workers. Americans were lazy and not dedicated to do a good job.
     
  20. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #20
    Actually the WaPo puts the number at closer to 11 Million.

    You are absolutely correct that we can't just kick them all out. That would be disastrous for the economy. And you are correct that they are taking jobs most Americans don't want.

    But we also don't want them taking jobs Americans do want or need. So while Americans may not want job picking fruit in the heat, they may want job painting houses.

    That is why we need to have them all registered and develop a workable guest worker program where when they are needed, they can come in and work. When they are not, they go back home. If the labor force is weak and Americans want those jobs, they get first crack.

    Those that register get first shot at citizenship, those that don't register are deported and not allowed to come back. The left is all about registering guns, but don't care who is in the country.

    As for trade, there needs to be an equilibrium. Crap they sell at Walmart is not what Trump is referring to. But instead Carrier's decision to close a factory (where a good friend is employed) and make those Air Conditioners in Mexico and then ship the back here. So they are taking good jobs and shipping them to Mexico and expect people in the US to buy their stuff after they bring it back. Not happening. So a small tariff needs to be applied. So Carrier can move those jobs to Mexico, but they will pay to bring the products back in. Similar situation with Ford.
     
  21. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #21
    This whole thread is just bizarre.
    Illegal immigrants are by definition illegal.
    You are basically asking why we should apply the law.

    This is just ridiculous.

    You people lost the election because you talk crazy.
     
  22. EnderBeta macrumors 6502

    EnderBeta

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    #22
    No because we recognize this is a loaded question and nothing more then a way of dismissing everything and getting us upset. It's not going to happen.

    If you need a ride to Canada my boyfriend (I'm actually female not male so don't get all weirded out) will give you a ride in our Chevy 2500HD Crew cab for a fair price.
     
  23. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #23
    No work = no food

    Trust me, they'll man up.
     
  24. mcdj thread starter macrumors G3

    mcdj

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    #24
    This is good. Thank you for taking the time to reply.

    A HUGE part of the issue I take with people who have aligned themselves with Trump is that so many of them are so flippant and smug about their views. They serve only to make others see them as arrogant d-bags. If Trump's rhetoric had been as reasoned and articulate as your reply, even on one issue, us leftys might not be so shocked by his win.
     
  25. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #25
    I do have an advantage... I voted Trump but I am also an immigrant ;)
     

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