RIM's new BlackBerry 10 OS isn't as good as iOS 1.0 (lol)

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by GarytheiPhonema, Dec 22, 2011.

  1. GarytheiPhonema macrumors member

    GarytheiPhonema

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    #1
  2. Certinfy macrumors 6502a

    Certinfy

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    #2
    Apple should re-release the iPhone 2G and 3G to compete with BB10 then. :p
     
  3. 0dev macrumors 68040

    0dev

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    #3
    BB 10 is in beta. Beta iOS systems are crappy too. All beta systems are, in fact, because they friggin' betas.

    I actually like the PlayBook. It's a nice tablet. I also use a 9700 which I'm quite happy with.

    All this "RIM is failing!" stuff is extremely overblown.
     
  4. Stealthipad macrumors 68040

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    #4
    I used Blackberry for years.

    They need to sell to the highest bidder while they still have some worth.

    It is sad as they used to be quite good.
     
  5. Small White Car macrumors G4

    Small White Car

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    #5
    Their new OS gets pushed back almost a year and you don't think there's something wrong inside RIM?
     
  6. 0dev macrumors 68040

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    They're having a few issues, but they're being overblown. That's what I'm saying.
     
  7. nfl46 macrumors 604

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    Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3)

    I totally didn't know they still make Blackberry's.

    All I know is Android and iOS. Lol.
     
  8. Small White Car macrumors G4

    Small White Car

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    #8
  9. jca24 macrumors 6502a

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  10. 0dev macrumors 68040

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    I think that just shows how stupid it is to judge the OS at this point, so far from the final release.

    All tablets other than the iPad are suffering. HP famously had the same issues with the Touchpad, but you wouldn't say they're failing, would you? Because they're still a big company which is shipping loads of other devices. Like RIM.

    Most people I know have BlackBerries, and a few of those who didn't are getting them for Christmas (and, of course, plenty of people already with BBs will be getting new ones for Christmas too). RIM's still doing well on sales despite the new OS being a little late. So the company is not dead. They're still pushing their products.
     
  11. scaredpoet, Dec 22, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011

    scaredpoet macrumors 604

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    The one difference with this beta is that it was promised to come out very soon to revolutionize blackberry handsets and be competitive, if not superior, to other offerings out there, and should've been in its near-final stages by now... meaning it should be working quite well. But it's not. Which is very disconcerting considering that RIM execs blamed the delay of BB 10 on wanting snazzy new LTE basebands... not on the software being a total mess.

    It's also a big double-standard that, while we're quibbling on here about whether Apple is "doomed" if they don't come out with a 4 inch-screen iPhone next year, people are rabidly defending RIM when their tablet doesn't even have a native e-mail app, and still won't in version 2.0.


    I don't think so. I think it needs to be said, loudly, because the two-headed monster running the show up in Waterloo isn't listening. I think RIM is at a crossroads right now where they've rested on their laurels for too long, and underestimated their competitors. They've relied too long on duping their customers into thinking that Blackberry's infrastructure is secure and reliable while promoting the myth that there is no security or reliability with competing platforms, and that this lie alone should outweigh things like app availability and modern smartphone features.

    (Personally, I've never really seen the security advantage to routing every byte of your smartphone's traffic to a specific data center regardless of application or purpose, which can either be a single point of failure, or multiple points of government surveillance. Or both at the same time. But I digress...)


    The next year is highly critical for Blackberry. They're right where Apple was in the mid 90s; where the platform has gone stagnant, the products aren't keeping up, unrealistic promises are being made and broken, and everyone is wondering if they'll survive. Either QNX will be the next Copland and fail miserably, potentially sinking the ship, or it could be the next NeXTSTEP.

    And RIM itself could either be the next Apple, where it decides that it's time to bring in (or back) creative, innovative management that isn't afraid to cut projects and start from scratch if need be, and succeed and thrive. Or it could be the next Palm, where total arrogance drove them to stay the course and end up in total obscurity, probably to be gobbled up by a large PC vendor that doesn't know the first thing about what to do with the company they bought and valuable assets within.
     
  12. 0dev macrumors 68040

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    #12
    scaredpoet, I do agree that RIM are late innovating, much like Nokia. But honestly, I don't see either company going down any time soon, because they still have large, loyal customer bases regardless.
     
  13. Small White Car macrumors G4

    Small White Car

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    #13
    Maybe I'm missing something. How many devices does RIM sell that don't run the BB OS?

    I was under the impression that (unlike with HP) those device WERE the majority of the company. What non Blackberry OS products does RIM have that's going to help them out?
     
  14. 0dev macrumors 68040

    0dev

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    #14
    Everything but the PlayBook runs BB OS, but those are all still selling well is my point.
     
  15. Small White Car macrumors G4

    Small White Car

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    Then how are they like HP? Your point was that HP has many different kinds of products to keep them going if one gets in trouble. And you said that was "like RIM."

    But it's not really like RIM at all if pretty much all of their sales depend on a single thing...a thing that is apparently not working like they wanted it to.
     
  16. scaredpoet macrumors 604

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    #16
    That sounds exactly like what RIM management is repeating over and over. perhaps like them, if you repeat it enough times, you might start to believe it.

    A loyal customer fanbase is earned, and at one point yes, RIM earned its loyalty. I don't think they are earning that loyalty now. They aren't' giving customers what they want, they aren't doing enough to cultivate app developers to extend functionality, they aren't' incorporating basic, core functions into their tablet products, and now there's the specter of them lying to their customers and investors about why these shiny, innovative new products aren't rolling out on schedule. And when a company is stuck in neutral long enough, and not earning the loyalty and trust of their fanbase, that loyalty is going to start to wane eventually.


    Or, we can think of it this way: Ford used to Make Model Ts. It was a very popular car with a very loyal fan base for its time, and was widely sold ring its run. It was dependable and reliable relative to other cars of the day. But do you think that if Ford continued to make Model Ts past 1927, when other car manufacturers started making nicer, faster, better models that people wanted to buy, that their loyal fan base would continue to be loyal for very long? Would YOU want to buy a Model T today, to drive to work and back every day? I mean sure, it doesn't have all the features of all those other newfangled cars out there, but it's a dependable design and had a loyal fanbase. So why not?
     
  17. 0dev macrumors 68040

    0dev

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    #17
    They have a wide range of phones which are still selling. Therefore, the tablet is a small part of their overall business. Their phone line is their main business. And it's still selling, just like HP's computers (which all run Windows, since that apparently matters so much). That's the comparison I was making.

    Customers who want a basic smartphone which is very good at messaging and social networking are more than happy with their BlackBerries. Much of my family and most of my friends have them for this reason and have no complaints. This customer base remains quite large, because not everyone cares about playing Angry Birds or downloading fart apps.

    Of course, customers who want an all-singing, all-dancing smartphone will go for an iPhone or Android instead. I personally have an iPhone 4 and BlackBerry Bold, and I used to own a Sony Ericsson X10, HTC Desire HD, HTC Hero, and HTC G1. I've also owned the BlackBerry Curve 8310, Pearl 8110, and Curve 8520. iPhones I've owned are the 3G, 3GS, and 4.

    Out of all these, the iPhone is best for apps and the BlackBerry is best for actual communication. In fact, I use my BlackBerry more than my iPhone these days. It's had one major period of downtime in recent memory, but generally it's a solid phone which does what it's made for well.

    If RIM were still selling the Curve 8310 to customers, you'd have a valid comparison. But they aren't. The Bold 9900 holds up very well to Apple and Android competitors. The OS flows well and is reliable, and the hardware is solid, with specs to rival even most new high-end HTCs.
     
  18. Small White Car macrumors G4

    Small White Car

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    And since the conversation is about how their phone's OS is being delayed by over 6 months, I'm not clear why you seem to take comfort in this quote.

    If you asked me to explain why RIM might be in trouble, I'd just copy and paste you quote here as-is. I think this shows WHY they're in trouble. But for some reason it makes you feel better about them?
     
  19. 0dev macrumors 68040

    0dev

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    #19
    You missed the part about their phone line still selling well regardless of the OS being a little late.
     
  20. goosnarrggh macrumors 68000

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    #20
    The problem is: Eventually, demand for phones running on the current version of BB OS will dry up. The current lineup of phones will stop selling well if the underlying OS stagnates for too long. We're seeing just that -- the designated successor to the current OS is withering on the vine.

    The successor to the current BB OS must be a grand slam, and it must be delivered before customers become too fed up with settling for the current OS offering. This is the problem that ought to keep RIM's board of directors up at night.
     
  21. Small White Car macrumors G4

    Small White Car

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    #21
    Yeah, no one said RIM is going out of business tomorrow.

    We're saying that August 2012 looks kind of bad for them. Your reply is that things are good today. Ok, but happy memories of Dec. 2011 are not really going to help them next year while they're waiting for an OS that was supposed to be out in the spring.
     
  22. applefanDrew macrumors 65816

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    #22

    Except it is NOT selling well. Rim continues to lose share to android and iOS. They are dying!
     
  23. 0dev macrumors 68040

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    #23
    BB10 will fix this. Yes, it's a bit delayed, but it's an entirely new, more modern system, based on QNX, which is a very solid OS previously used in a wide range of devices. It will bring a whole new experience to BlackBerries and provide the update they need.

    See above.

    :rolleyes:
     
  24. scaredpoet, Dec 22, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011

    scaredpoet macrumors 604

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    From the rosy picture you paint, it would seem then that RIM needs to do nothing. why bother with BB 10? They're doing just fine. Or are they?

    By the way, who said that what OS HP's computers run matters in this discussion?

    (By the way: they also run linux.)


    Meanwhile, millions more individuals are buying Android and iOS devices, at rates that far outpace RIM's sales rate. iOS is easy, simple to use, and excellent at social networking.

    Ahhh, the common refrain of a RIM devotee. Well, I was a former RIM user. I switched to iOS not for the fart apps, and I don't have angry birds on my iPhone or iPad. I did it because it actually integrates better with my employer's e-mail platform than RIM's solution does, believe it or not. As companies start realizing that connectivity has evolved beyond 2001, it actually became more cumbersome and expensive to keep RIM in the loop. Or, we could have secure, encrypted Push e-mail on iOS and Android devices with no added cost or infrastructure. And it's more intuitive, too.

    But, if we go by your crude pushing of an inaccurate cliche, I guess serious tablet users don't care about e-mail or BBM either, right? i mean, who needs those trivial little things on their tablet?


    Then either you should know better about its functionality and that it goes beyond fart apps and Angry Birds, or you're guilty of the crime you accuse others of.

    I remember six in recent memory, actually. One in 2011, but there was also one in 2010, at least one in 2009, at least one in 2008, one in late 2007... and from the "another outage" headline from the 2007 article, it's easy to infer that this wasn't the first time that happened, that year.

    The infrastructure is far less reliable than RIM users are willing to admit, primarily because of how it's designed. How many times has virtually every Blackberry stopped working for e-mail, messaging and data? We see above, at least 6 times, and it seems to happen on a relatively non-infrequent basis, actually. Contrast with: when has EVERY iPhone or EVERY Android, or even EVERY Nokia or Palm device for that matter, stopped working all at once?


    You're welcome to that opinion, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on that. Other people who've reviewed it agree. it's certainly a great phone if you're heavily invested and have drunken a lot of the RIM Kool-Aid. But to most who are accustomed to better, it's just more of the same.
     
  25. ashman70 macrumors 6502a

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    #25
    RIM is making money from its corporate install base, roughly 1 Billion dollars each quarter, that ought to keep them going for awhile, no question. Problem is if that corporate install base begins to think the company has little or no future, and their stock sure isn't helping paint a confident future, they will start to look (if they haven't started already) at alternatives and leave, which will hit hard at RIM's bottom line. It's not the consumers that are leaving RIM for iPhones that are going to bring down the company, but those consumers do likely work for corporations that are RIM customers, so they will talk to their co workers and managers and word will trickle up to management. Whatever RIM has or hasn't done in the past is irrelevant at this point, what they do in the next six to eight months will determine if they can survive in a market they help create. I think they know what they have to do to stay in the fight, its really just a question of whether they can pull it off in time, because time is not on their side. Investors are already impatient and no one, investors or customers are going to wait almost a year for their next big product, its simply too long. RIM's competitors are bringing out new products all the time, by this spring Apple will likely have released the next iPhone and by next fall likely the next version of iOS, all the while RIM is doing what?

    I hope RIM can stay in the game but they are running out of time and they know it.
     

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