Rodrigo Duterte says he’ll resign as Philippine president if someone can prove God exists

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by shyam09, Jul 7, 2018.

  1. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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  2. Lennyvalentin macrumors 65816

    Lennyvalentin

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    #4
  3. mobilehaathi macrumors G3

    mobilehaathi

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  4. cube macrumors P6

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    #6
    "this Gödel fella"
     
  5. chown33 macrumors 604

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    #7
    Who here doesn't think it would be funny as hell heck the dickens if Duterte was struck by a bolt of lightning?

    Hold on, I hear some helicopters approaching. I hope they aren't black. Or look like the Angel of Death.
     
  6. cube macrumors P6

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  7. jerwin macrumors 68020

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    #9
    In an article that actually gives some context to Duterte's fight with the Catholic Church, the independent does note:
    I am reminded of Douglas Adams.

     
  8. Zenithal macrumors G3

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    #10
    My understanding of the Philippines is that they're a very Catholic country but aren't terribly religious in the sense they pray several times a day. Though I believe Duterte's disgust or hatred of religion stems from his claims of being abused when he was a young boy by a priest. Which, honestly, I'm willing to believe given the issues the Catholic church has been dealing with for the last 18ish years given peoples' choice to come forward with their suffering.

    Is it smart for a world leader to say something like this? No, not really. Duterte is an odd one, that's for sure. Though I can't really comment on his being considering I know next to nothing about quasi-dictators.
     
  9. jerwin macrumors 68020

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    #11
    From March:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...24ccab94435_story.html?utm_term=.1a0154c5e441

    ..
     
  10. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #12

    Going after the church, and religion, is one of the steps in cementing an authoritarian regime. At first you try to get them on your side as part of your establishment. Usually at some point some of the clerics may diverge and become liberation theologists. At that point you start locking them up, often causing a schism inside the local religious hierarchy, which has tended to favor the establishment even with increasing reluctance. However after that it can get extremely ugly, for instance in 1980 in El Salvador, the assassination of Archbishop Romero while he was saying Mass in a cathedral.

    There are other examples, for instance during the Soviet era, Cardinal József Mindszenty who had resisted the fascist and then communist governments of Hungary, was locked up for six years, released during the uprising, but then had to take shelter in the US embassy in Budapest when the Soviets crushed the revolution; he spent 15 years there and was eventually permitted to leave only after negotiations with the Vatican but ended up in exile in Austria for the rest of his life.

    Also during the Soviet era, there were four or five separate eras of religious repression in the USSR, separated by brief or sometimes quite long periods of moderation. The fear was always about undermining or diluting power over ordinary people's affairs, i.e. that they might rise up in a new revolution to displace those who had compromised the original populist ideals of the Bolshevik's 1917 overthrow of the tsar.

    It's typical for authoritarians to repress or try to compromise either a dominant or emerging religion when it seems the clerics might start trying to interfere. The church is seen as either a potential competitor for absolute rule, or as potentially supporting followers who may oppose a government that's trying to establish absolute power from a more restrained set of privileges established in a constitution.
     
  11. blackfox macrumors 65816

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    #13
    If you offer an impossible proposition, then what does it mean exactly?
     
  12. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #14
    See post 5 above... citizens have been invited to watch the birdie while something else goes on. The birdie is a public and deeply disturbing threat to the idea of "God's protection", a fundamental underpinning of hope in the Filipinos' harsh existence/ The something else could be anything, but it won't be something they'd think about and then eagerly sign up for.

    And btw Turkey's Erdogan (another dude Trump admires along with Duterte), having just been re-elected after changes to the constitution that now permit him more power, has just dismissed another whole raft of bureaucrats he regarded as potential threats to his autocracy. There could be 15k more Turks at home today wondering how things went so wrong when some of them may originally even have voted for Erdogan, just wanted a little more respect for Islam in their lives, not necessarily a U-turn on the entire secular model of a government in which they had more say ever since Ataturk.

    The descent to powerlessness does not happen overnight even if when it does "happen", it may seem abrupt or shocking. Take frog, set in a saucepan of cool water on a stove burner set to low... play elevator music and start dismantling how frogs used to operate in their little ponds out in the meadows. If some of them hop out... there's that hotter pot of water over there on the other burner.
     
  13. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

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    #15
    It's about par for the course for a dictator or wannabe dictator to take on the church at some point, usually but not always after a divergence in political views, where the church has supported the government and then develops second thoughts. It's always about coveting power but sometimes it's about wanting the money too... the money that citizens donate to the church, and the assets accumulated by the church. Greed, envy... once the despot starts down the list of cardinal sins, there may be no stopping even at murder.

    Further to the incidents noted in an earlier post in this thread: Recently in Nicaragua the government has supported thugs attacking clergy again. The church parted company with government a long time ago and most recently has tried to engage political adversaries in dialogue, but the Sandanistas now are attacking clerics (and independent journos) anew, while the pro-government media stage protests protected by paramilitaries and police.

    https://www.ncronline.org/news/world/bishops-journalists-attacked-church-nicaragua

    Nicaraguan bishops and clergy were attacked by armed groups aligned with the government July 9 as violence in the Central American country escalated and affected the Catholic Church, which has provided humanitarian assistance in its parishes and has tried to diffuse a worsening political crisis through dialogue.

    Cardinal Leopoldo Brenes Solórzano of Managua and his auxiliary, Bishop Silvio José Báez, and Archbishop Waldemar Stanislaw Sommertag, the apostolic nuncio, were among clergy from Managua pummeled as they attempted to protect St. Sebastian Basilica in the city of Diriamba from an incursion by a pro-government mob. Báez and at least one other priest were injured. Journalists also were attacked and had cameras and other equipment stolen.​

    So it's not like Duterte is especially creative in trying do away with "divine" competition for his title of Master of the Universe. All these tin pots are the same when it comes down to trying to consolidate power.
     
  14. stylinexpat macrumors 65816

    stylinexpat

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  15. jerwin macrumors 68020

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    #17
    Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.
     
  16. skunk macrumors G4

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  17. stylinexpat macrumors 65816

    stylinexpat

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    #19
    Everything and everyone that you see around you has its creator.
     
  18. Huntn macrumors P6

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    #20
    Ah, so you are a polytheist. :)
     
  19. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #21
    That is an assertion with no foundation in fact.
     
  20. stylinexpat macrumors 65816

    stylinexpat

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    #22
    Today we have Science ;)
     
  21. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #23
    How strong is resolve that a god doesn't exists? Is he willing to stand on a hill during a thunderstorm, in wet copper armor, yelling "All Gods are bastards?" Before anyone protests, in many primitive cultures, Nature is a god. He'll learn why we call Nature a mother.:p

    The scientific method has its flaws as well. Here's a humerus example.:D

    Observation: I have never broken a bone
    Hypothesis: I am boneless
    Data: I have slipped on ice an broke at least 2 bones in my arm
    Conclusion: I have at least two bones. Strong evidence hint the possibility of a 3rd

    The point is, science doesn't have all the answers. What we cannot weigh and measure, we can only guess at.
     
  22. stylinexpat macrumors 65816

    stylinexpat

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    #24

    You are right, not all but some.
     
  23. ActionableMango macrumors G3

    ActionableMango

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    #25
    Nothing that man says should be taken at face value. If he said "2+2=4", I'd get that independently verified.
     

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27 July 7, 2018