Romney and taxes

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by VulchR, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #1
    Just got this e-mail alert from CNN but can't find the full story:

    Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney has released his full 2011 federal income tax returns, fulfilling a commitment he made earlier this year.

    Brad Walt, the trustee of the Romney’s blind trust, said the Romneys paid $1,935,708 in 2011 taxes on $13,696,951 in income. He said the Romneys’ effective tax rate for 2011 was 14.1%.

    Also in the release, Walt said that during the 20-year period between 1990-2009, the Romneys paid an average federal tax rate of 20.2%.

    In January, Romney released a summary of his 2011 taxes. In it, he and his wife, Ann, originally said they filed a joint 1040 reporting a joint income of $21 million and a tax bill of $3.2 million.

    Get complete coverage of breaking news on CNN.com, CNN TV and CNN Mobile.​

    Awhile ago I asked for a t-shirt that said I was one of the 47%. Now we learn that Romney has only paid 14-20% taxes in spite of being rich. I think we should get him the t-shirt, since he's an honorary member of tax free-loaders.

    EDIT: Apparently the average effective tax rate for people in his income bracket is 25% - see http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/story/2012-01-19/romney-tax-rate/52682372/1, which cites the Tax Foundation.
     
  2. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #2
    So what law(s) did his accountant break?
     
  3. VulchR thread starter macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #3
    Legal ≠ moral. I prefer a moral president.
     
  4. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #4
    Was Obama moral before or after he flip-flopped in June on gay marriage?
     
  5. VulchR thread starter macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    OK - I'll amend what I wrote. I prefer a moral president who does not have a blatant conflict of interest when it comes to tax policy.
     
  6. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #6
    I think a more accurate word is "ethical".
     
  7. anonymouslurker macrumors regular

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    #7
    So, you're saying that the >$250,000/yr tax increase should be moved up to somewhere between what Obama makes, and what Romney makes?
     
  8. VulchR thread starter macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    @leekohler: Agreed. 'Ethical' is better.

    EDIT @anonymouslurker: Romney pays less than average in his tax bracket. The suggests to me that he and his accountants have tried every last legal tax dodge they can conjure up. I think we need to close loopholes so that very rich people pay according to their means rather than according to their ability to hire slimeball accountants. Thus, I believe Romney has a conflict of interest because it would hurt his personal situation to close the loopholes.
     
  9. ericrwalker macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #9
    The guy paid almost $2 million in taxes last year, and you want more from him, personally I think he paid too much.
     
  10. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #10
    So Romney had an ethical duty to pay more taxes than he owed?
     
  11. edk99 macrumors 6502a

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    Please show me where any Democrat is being "ethical" in paying "more" taxes if they could of paid less. Kerry? Reid? Pelosi? Obama?

    I pretty sure Mitt gives more to charity then all 4 of them do combined. I believe that is a better use of his money then giving it to government. Oh and yes I know Obama has upped his charitable contributions over the last few years so you don't have to go dig that up.
     
  12. ericrwalker macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #12

    I think everyone has a duty to encourage government to spend less. If someone out there is paying 25% of their income in federal taxes, they need to stop worrying about who is paying less, and start fighting so they can pay less too.
     
  13. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

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    #13
    It's not the amount, it's the percentage. Otherwise, I'd also expect you to be paying $2 million every year, as well.
     
  14. edk99 macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    That still does not tell you anything. That 25% is on income not capital gains income. If 99% of the income he is claiming is Capital gains income then that is taxed at 15%. So after a few deductions and such you get a 14.1% effective tax rate. Just about what Warren Buffet and Bill Gates pays.

    If Romney and his accountant have followed the tax laws then there is nothing to look at here. It is the government the sets the tax code so blame them.

    Well good news is his taxes will go up in 2013 as capital gains will be 20%.
     
  15. VulchR thread starter macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #15
    Yes. If a politician goes on and on about the federal debt and proposes cuts that would hurt poor and middle class families, I would expect them not to be hypocritical and to pay a fair share. Less than 20% of income when one is earning more than $10 million a year is not a fair share....

    @edk99: Thank you for the clarification. I guess we'll find out the details once the press analyzes the released material. Still, <=20% taxes paid when one is earning more than $27,000 a day seems too low to me.
     
  16. ericrwalker macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #16
    Kerry? He docked his $7 million yacht in RI to avoid his home states taxes saving him $500K in taxes.


    After some complaints I do believe he agreed to pay MA taxes.




    ----------

    I know it's the percentage...and he paid over 14% of his income in 2011, yet he doesn't get any extra benefit from the government than a non-tax payer. As a matter of fact he qualifies for less programs.
     
  17. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #17
    Ah. So we are talking about "fair share."

    What is the "fair share" of federal income taxes for someone making what Romney made?

    What is the "fair share" of federal income taxes for someone making $40,000 a year?

    Are they moving targets? Does everyone owe a "fair share" of federal income tax, or just the upper 53% of the population?
     
  18. VulchR, Sep 21, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012

    VulchR thread starter macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #18
    At the 14.1% rate for 2011, Romney earned more than $32,000 a day ($37,525 prior to taxes). Don't you think he should pay much, much more proportionately than, say, somebody who earns $37,000 a year? Don't you think somebody could live off of $15,000 a day and still lead a perfectly happy life?

    EDIT: corrected to actual values based on his reported 2011 return.
     
  19. anonymouslurker macrumors regular

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    #19
    Ah, now I got it...

    rich = evil
     
  20. ericrwalker macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #20

    Only if you are a Republican.
     
  21. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #21
    But I thought the idea was that everybody should pay their fair share of federal income taxes. I guess Romney was right - that 47% of the people won't ever pay their "fair share" of federal income taxes. In fact, they'll pay no federal income taxes.

    In that case, I guess I agree with you, we do need to increase the taxes paid by the 53% to make up for the 47% who do not pay their fair share of federal income taxes.
     
  22. killerrobot macrumors 68020

    killerrobot

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    #22
    How does the 10% tithing to the LDS church fit into those charitable contributions? Are they included in your figures?

    As far as this whole taxes thing - most of those in politics that are creating tax policies are millionaires and there is obviously a conflict of interest when they set policy (this goes for every elected official out there, period).

    If Romney is paying 14.1% while the typical payer is paying 25% for the same tax bracket, it just shows that there are way too many loopholes and his accountant is doing a great job at maximizing those loopholes.

    However, why is Romney's accountant better than the others in the same tax bracket? How many of those other people in the same tax bracket are politicians setting tax policy? Add into this equation the lobbyists that back politicians for multimillion/billion dollar corporations and it's obvious that there needs to be tax reform. If you think Romney is the best one to do so and that his interests are the general public's interests, you're completely blind to reality.
     
  23. anonymouslurker macrumors regular

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    #23
    So, you just said that EVERY elected official has interests that differ from the public.

    Singling out Romney sounds kind of naive and blind to reality, to me.
     
  24. VulchR thread starter macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #24
    As noted above the actual figures regarding Romney's income is pre-tax $37,000 a day. What useful purpose could that level of accumulation of capital be put to other than satisfying profligate greed. Somebody who waves the flag and campaigns for reducing the deficit shouldn't be hiring a company of accountants to avoid paying taxes. Let us suppose he paid 40% tax - he would still earn about $22000 a day. Honestly, do you think he or his family would be able to tell the difference between $37k a day versus $22k? At some point accumulating more money becomes unethical because it does not actually increase happiness of the person who earned it (happiness actually peaks below $1 million per year). So yes, I think rich people like Romney should be forced to stop hoarding money beyond what they could possibly use for the well-being of their families. We need money in the economy, not in offshore tax-avoiding accounts.
     
  25. WRP macrumors 6502a

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    #25
    http://www.mittromney.com/blogs/mitts-view/2012/09/note-trustee-brad-malt

    Funny they left this part out... :rolleyes:

     

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