Ronald Reagan lives again?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by 1458279, Aug 27, 2016.

  1. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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  2. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #2
    So stupid. Trump is about as far removed from Reagan as a person can be. If anything, he's the reverse Reagan. Reagan drew the other party towards voting for him, Trump is driving his own party away from him.

    Anyone that thinks Trump will pull a Reagan and will win almost every state, is truly delusional. Trump is no Reagan.
     
  3. thermodynamic Suspended

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    #3
  4. Jess13 Suspended

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    True, in part. Trump is being way too divisive to pull off 1980/1984 Reagan-type wins.


    ‘80

    1280px-ElectoralCollege1980.svg.png


    ‘84

    map-showing-Reagan-landslide-victory-in-1984.png
     
  5. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #5
    It's a tough one to call. Many don't trust Trump and hard to know if that'll change much. He has a HUGE change election mentality on his side because people want change very badly. He has what has to be the worse Dem candidate ever. He has the Bernie/WikiLeaks/DNC emails, and outsider things going for him.

    Hard to say if that's enough, but if not, Hillary goes into a no win. There is no way Hillary will ever be able to lead a nation this divided. It will only get MUCH more divided and some of us know where that'll end up.

    Either way, freedom and liberty will prevail if humanity makes it thru this.
     
  6. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    Why would Trump be able to then? Especially when he is the source of a lot of the division?
     
  7. LizKat macrumors 68040

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    #7
    That's a ludicrous thing to say. She's already pitching one bipartisan bill Clyburn and Ryan have worked on together for consideration next term even before the term begins. Sound like leadership to me. And bipartisan at that. Imagine that. A candidate for president pitching a bipartisan piece of legislation.

    For as much people rail about change, well, change requires people to compromise and agree on a path forward.

    Do not imagine that happens from the far ends of the politilcal spectrum. Pressure by the far ends to alter how the center looks at things can occur, but the actual changes in law are negotiated at the center. As they should be, because the country is pretty much centrist. I'm to your left, you're to my right but the changes in laws will be somewhere in the middle. That seems fair...
     
  8. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #8
    A hose divided cannot stand. She is not a uniter, she'll be worse than Obama was. Look at her work in the Senate. Look at the work as SOS. How'd the united thing work for Libya and Yemen?

    It's a ploy to keep the eyes off what's really going on. She did the same thing with Russia when her email/DNC leak happened. She did the same thing with the racist cry when Trump did his speech. She did the same thing when passing out candy to the press when they were asking questions.

    It's the age old "look over there, something shinny" trick. Some fall for tricks, others see them a mile away. Look at her past and show ANY uniting policy. We had the 94 upheaval because of Hillary after her HillaryCare came to light. Her being a liar and having no shame about it, only makes it worse, much worse.

    Not all of us want to wait around while the others go thru this painful lesson, we're tired of waiting.
     
  9. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #9
    I don't know what you mean by that.
     
  10. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #10
    Many of us knew what was happening when Obama got elected. It was the New New Deal. We knew what the outcome would be. Just as much as we knew what the outcome would be with ObamaCare. We didn't have much choice, it was going to happen no matter what we said or did. It's like a storm that you can't stop.

    Now, we see the same thing all over again about to happen. We know what the effect of Hillary's economy will be and we just got done waiting 8 (16?) years for things to get better. They didn't and sooner or later we realize that we're going to die either way.

    At some point, you get tired of waiting for things to change and you just throw in the towel. This happened in Detroit and many other cities, people just pack up and leave because they come to terms with the fact that they only have so much of their lives that they're willing to waste waiting for someone else to fix things.

    They move on. Imagine just how much was invested in Detroit to make it the richest city, all that investment is gone and will never come back. They can't even figure out how to rebuild it after more than 1/2 a century.

    When it's easier to build a new nation or a new life elsewhere, that's what people do. Doesn't matter if it's Libya, Detroit, or the whole USA. In the end, we all die, some of us see that and are willing to do what it takes to have freedom and liberty. The foundation of this nation is that others don't have the moral right to enslave people like this. Saying "it's not that bad" doesn't cut it for those that know better.
     
  11. LizKat macrumors 68040

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    #11
    What does that mean? Throw in the towel. Don't vote? Emigrate to another country?

    I think you have blinders on about what is happening here every day. We've been around on Detroit already a couple of times, so I won't try to go there again with you, past insisting again that Detroit ain't dead yet, and to remind that the past does not dictate the future. It only serves as information on how things went at one point and as an implicit question on whether one would do everything the same again, all other things being equal (which of course is the kicker, since nothing sits still waiting on history to repeat).

    As far as thread topic goes, the idea of Ronald Reagan lives again? Well Clinton's convention was pretty positive and people seemed to like it better than the gloom and doom of Trump's pitch a week earlier. Trump's sure no Reagan so I guess Clinton/Kaine will have to carry that flag from Philly back to DC in January. Of course there they will encounter the likes of Senators Sanders and Warren, so... who the hell knows where the second coming of Ronald Reagan will slink off to at that point. It will be an adventure, that's for sure.

    You said this: "When it's easier to build a new nation or a new life elsewhere, that's what people do."

    Well people do immigrate here in search of a new life. I guess it could be a reason to emigrate elsewhere, if you personally think that your life would be better somewhere else. You know the old saw about wherever you go, there you are? There's a lot of truth in that.

    As for building a new nation, this one is not broken, so that seems extreme.

    I can't share your dystopian view of the USA right now, much less imagine the bleak future you keep predicting for it. We have always been an optimistic people since the first immigrants dared to cross the Atlantic. It's baked in by now. Irrepressible. You can't keep an American down for long. We're so adventurous that we're just this side of foolhardy, most of the time. :p

    Look around these boards. Even people who can't see voting for any of the prez candidates are not throwing in the towel. They are saying ok let's have a look at how the Senate races will turn out. It's saying ok forget the top slot, beats me, let's look to the legislative branch for some changes that we'd like to see happen.
     
  12. APlotdevice macrumors 68040

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    #12
    The states have become too locked in for anyone to get a Reagan-type win. Democrat or Republican, it doesn't matter. Presidential elections will continue to be determined by a handful of swing states for the foreseeable future.
     
  13. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #13
    I remember in HS when me and some others used to compare test scores from math and science classes. In one class someone asked why we were doing that, what was so important about it. To us it was important, the person that asked barely got thru the class, while I was never beat. Same thing happened in college programming classes. Some people used to wait for code printouts to end up in the trash so they could copy it and get past that assignment. Others worked hard to do their best.

    I see this in the workplace, you have some that show up like it's a prison sentence and others that come to do their best and maybe even enjoy what they do.

    Some of us see life as a spectator sport, others go out and play the game as hard as we can because we know that someday it'll all come to an end.

    Saying the US isn't broke is like saying we're the strongest horse in the glue factory. I get that some people accept what comes their way and don't think it could be better or don't think trying to make it better is worth the effort. Others see no end to how high we can fly and seek aggressively to learn more and do more.

    I don't see the point in sitting around hoping that someone else will make things better. To me, that's giving up hope. I'd rather give up on a system that is corrupt and build a new one or fight to change the corrupt one.

    Some are passive others are aggressive in life, that's their choice.

    The throwing in the towel is more about giving up trying to save the sinking ship and focus on building the new ship.

    Our system is on such thin ice right now, it won't take much for it to sink. It doesn't take a Detroit type move to crash the system, all it takes is a few key things to do the job. The ice is so thin, a few cracks is all it takes. The passive people that allowed this to happen will end up getting what they've voted for.
     
  14. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #14
    Which is it then: give up, or fight? Throwing in the towel is giving up. Fighting, what is that? Surely not arguing on these boards, right? Fighting is going to town council meetings and asking why a pipeline that will enrich only gas suppliers has to go through the wetlands from here to Massachusetts when they don't want that gas locally and it will be exported at higher prices than can be got using it here. That's fighting. Putting a guy who's against the pipeline on the ballot for town supervisor is another way to fight. He lost but the vote count woke some people the hell up right up to Albany, and that pipeline is on hold for now.

    I don't accede to corrupt government. I work to change it. I call up that son of a gun who takes NRA money and votes against common sense background check extensions and I berate his anti-common-sense chance every time out of the box. That's not passive. That's active. Even the congresscritter's staffer knows that. He slipped the last time I phoned and he made some crack about "You activists... " which made me happy.

    Every person can make a difference. I think that is what you are saying as well.

    The difference seems to be that you don't believe enough people arre bothering to make a difference these days. That's where I vehemently disagree. That's where I ask you to look around and see what people are doing locally. Change happens from the bottom up.

    Whenever I point that out, with examples even!, you revert to flipping my "the nation isn't broken" into something hopeless like we're the "strongest horse in the glue factory."

    Your pessimism isn't justified. If it was, Janet Yelkin would not still be running her mouth about the next rate hike. She'd be backing and filling and trying to explain why it's necessary to undo the previous one! Stop pretending we're on the skids to hell here. I am not sure what payoff that tack creates for you, but really, no sale here.

    Even in this broke neck of the woods the daily paper often runs 20 pages again instead of 16... Want Ads and Community Events, don't publish a paper without 'em.

    Give it up Karl, we're still a great country. Nothing wrong with trying to make it better still, eh?
     
  15. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #15
    These Left/Right votes aren't going to have much impact. It's like trying to determine if we should turn left or right while deeply stuck in the middle of nowhere without any gas.

    When Yellen raised the rates last year by .25, a TON of money was lost. Not only in the US, but small nations that depend on the US. She had to raise rates because she talked it up so much that she boxed herself into a corner.

    Both revisions to the economy for this year went backwards. BOJ went neg on interest rates right after Yellen raised the rates here. She's trying to make things look better, when is the last time we've had rates this low for this long and having this much trouble raising them?

    We're painted very deep in an economic corner, all we have now is bubble hopping to try and make things look better than they are. You might not see that, but many didn't see the housing bubble or the DotCom bubble. I saw both.

    Trying to change things with votes isn't going to work, too much corruption. The path is too far to use regular means. We consuming innovation to support a failing system, once innovation reaches the point of diminishing returns, the game is over.

    The throwing in of the towel is the realization that the current system won't work and focusing on reconstruction instead of wasting effort on fixing the current system. As it sits now, the burden of the debt and unfunded mandates will only slow down any future growth people can create.

    What reason would we have for trying to repair a system that's this far gone?

    No matter how much work we do, we're still going to be paralyzed with division. People are still arguing over slavery, yet nobody today was a direct victim of it, and they'll never get over it. People can't engage in worthwhile debate, all they do is cry everything is unfair.

    Why would anyone waste their lives trying to save something that can't be saved? It's not any given city or even just economic, it's the people, they'll never see things different from how they see it now. Some can't see anything but blame. It's an argument not worth having, time to move on to reconstruction, the sooner we get started, the sooner we'll be done.
     
  16. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #16
    This is such a crock! "The system" is not far gone. It needs negotiation to bring medical costs in line and eventually to move to single payer. It needs reduction of military spending on stuff like aircraft carriers that are on a trend line to obsolete or those coastal ships that aren't up to the job designed for, stop making them. It needs removal of FICA cap. It may need a minor increase in retirement age. It needs renegotiation of college loan arrangements and adjustment of existing debt. And on and on, but that's not "far gone", it's a typical laundry list of any government with maturing programs that need tweaks.

    All this horsefeathers of a dying nation are just ridiculous. I don't know where you get these ideas. Burn your "news" bookmarks and start over maybe, if you want to talk about starting over. Read some major metro like the Cleveland Plain Dealer or some such for a few days to clear your mind... maybe start with this.


    What are you proposing, exactly. Voting for Donald Trump? This is your political sea change?

    Donald Trump is a narcissistic charlatan whose purpose in this campaign is unclear but who's having a negative effect on the party whose banner he carries (or drags through the mud half the time). He is no more suitable to hold the office of President of the United States than would be Rudy Giuliani or Jeff Sessions. He's a disgrace.

    It's not quite on the money to say "it's the people, they'll never see things different from how they see it now." Perhaps what you mean is they will never see things how you see it now. And no surprise there!

    What does "move on to the reconstruction" mean? What exactly do you mean, policy by policy?
     
  17. 1458279 thread starter Suspended

    1458279

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    #17
    It's not about trying to make things like ObamaCare work, ObamaCare is a flawed system.

    It's not about trying to make this system work, it's fundamentally flawed, and it's not just a few systems. Look at the corruption all over the place and how people don't do anything about it. From corruption in the IRS, EPA, failed justice system, IP system that doesn't work. People that get elected and don't do their job.

    Our system is based on a population that has high ethics, we don't have that any more. Shaving a few points here and there to gain some more time, isn't going to work, we're too deep in debt (thanks W and Obama).

    Our budget is some 70% entitlements and the government won't stop growing. Greenspan already said that entitlements are growing at 9% and replacing dollar for dollar expansion dollars from the money supply. We would have to grow the money supply by the same amount just to break even. We can't hardly hit 2%.

    Can't get there from here.

    Socialism and capitalism don't mix. It's like oil and water in the same container. Capitalism expands the container and socialism is a one way valve, it can only grow until the system breaks. Capitalism slows as socialism grows and takes over.

    That's why we aren't growing, Obama pushed very hard for huge socialism programs and he got them. He isn't even bothering to try to fix them.

    ObamaCare going single payer doesn't fix anything, it's still a huge socialist program that fixes nothing.

    That's why we aren't growing, that's why Obama is the first president to NEVER hit 3% in any year or quarter. First president ever! Yet people can't even see that. He added nearly 10Trillion to the debt and that's not counting unfunded mandates, pensions, home ownership, etc...

    It's just too far gone, like trying to repair a car that has so many problems that it's much cheaper to buy another.

    Just looking at a few things here and there isn't looking deep enough. It's just not working out and the number are just too big.

    Notice how the Dems don't talk much about the debt anymore, they don't want to talk about it.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 28, 2016 ---
    Here's a more realistic assessment of the state of our economy.

    http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/StreetTalk/bill-gross-janet-yellen-economy-walk/2016/08/26/id/745384/

     
  18. blackfox macrumors 65816

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    #18
    Well, you've said a lot in this thread - not that I understood most of it - but with regards to the post I quoted:
    70% entitlements to whom? Pretty sure not poor people or the general populace. If you're talking about Private Military Contractors and Corporations, sure - but why is Government the dick in this equation and not that Private Corporations?

    Socialism and Capitalism don't mix? Pretty sure most of Europe would disagree. Are those Countries perfect? No. Generally, many score higher on many quality-of life, longevity and low-crime indexes than the US.

    As for healthcare - well, no easy choices there. Single payer would probably be better 75% of the time, and worse the other quarter.

    As for why we're not growing - it's because we're not as competitive as we once were. Our Education, Infrastructure, and god knows what else are crap - tough bananas for us.

    Oh - debt. That's a bipartisan issue...
     
  19. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

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    #19
    Funny how noone really reacted to the orginal post....

    Nigel Farrage is a guy who ran a campaign based on lies an then ran for the hill when he won.

    Well not actually "ran" as he insists on staying in a job he vowed to tear down (MEP) making sure he gets the most benefits out of it.


    So a corrupt, incompetent liar endorsing Trump?

    Oh my am I suprised.....
     
  20. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #20
    He's looking for a civil war of terminator judgement day proportions. You're wasting your time.
     
  21. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #21
    You're right. It's not an argument with having. Time for you to move on to reconstruction.
     
  22. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #22
    True, but Reagan proved he could fool almost 100% of the people almost 100% of the time and his legacy still continues today or otherwise congress would have put in something better for a president to veto or sign.




    But people desperately wanted better change in 2008. What happened? How did Obama fail? Was it just obstruction, could he not even use executive orders? Why did he have to compromise so often? Why wait until his final year to come back to put on his shoes and fighting for the working class?



    (they said it, not me...)
     
  23. VulchR macrumors 68020

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    #23
    You're right. We thought that the UK voters would, after experiencing the horrors of WWII, neglect blind right-wing nationalism. Firage is a dishonest idiot who resigned as leader of UKIP rather than face the aftermath of Brexit, for which he and other Brexiters had no plan.

    [​IMG]
     
  24. Huntn macrumors G5

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    #24
    No offense, but (all of you Trust people) looking at and declaring Mt. Trust as some kind of great person/leader reveals how niave, gullible, susceptible you are, along with poor judgement to boot. Makes me wonder about Nigel. :)
     
  25. LizKat macrumors 68040

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    #25
    LOL well it passed the time until all the fabrics for tomorrow's cutting were dry and ready to press. Can't do that stuff in the daytime when it's this hot out.

    The movie sounds like an interesting remake. I hope they shoot it on the moon.
     

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