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astray

macrumors member
Original poster
May 9, 2003
60
0
uk
Taken from MacBidouille, google translation:


[ Rumours ] No PPC 7457 in Aluminum, etc - Ewok - 13:23:26
Motorola would not ensure as envisaged the production of PPC 7457 intended for the AluBooks futures. Consequently, the next ones will embark PPC 7455 B It will result from it from the falls of performances compared to those envisaged (in particular because of 256 KB of mask (L2 cache i think) instead of 512 and lower frequencies), a hot summer days to be dissipated and a reduced autonomy of some pourcents(percents?). The PPC 7457 should nevertheless be available during the last quarter of this year. One can deduce from it that it will be integrated in AluBooks for January.

In addition, of the keyboards and mice without wire could be revealed in September (for APPLE Expo?).
 

Tiauguinho

macrumors 6502a
Mar 5, 2002
647
0
The Netherlands
LOL! Motorola is so sweet! Thank god for IBM really. Im tired of this game with motorola, its always the same thing. I know that its MacBiddou that has this rumor but nonetheless, its looks just tipical Motorola. Please IBM, hurry up with the 90nm PPC970!
 
Comment

benoda

macrumors member
Apr 25, 2003
40
0
I said it once, I'll say it again. If I had to wait 9 months for an updated 15" that only has a minor speed bump + 17" technology (DDR, FW800, Al, etc) I'll be sorely disappointed.
 
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nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,546
1,196
Waiting for the 7457 has long seemed like the probable reason why Apple hasn't been able to release new PowerBooks.

If it's THIS bad--NO 7457s--then the next PowerBooks may indeed by no more than a stopgap while something better gets ready. They'd better be priced low if the improvement over current models is minor. PowerBooks are entering the phase PowerMacs used to be in.

Lets hope this is the last revision before G5 PowerBooks this winter!

The only G4 PowerBook I'd buy would be a dual-7457 17", or a slimmer, cheaper 12".
 
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pyrotoaster

macrumors 65816
Dec 28, 2002
1,004
0
Oak Park, IL
While this doesn't surprise me, it's not really that bad. We could still see big revisions to the 12" and 15" models.

The 15" will be a major revision just for the fact that it's a new enclosure with new tech. People who think that isn't major are bound to be disappointed no matter what Apple announces.

The 12" Powerbook has quite a few areas for improvement outside the clock speed. Apple could make it thinner, add some needed L3 cache, bump the processor up to 900 MHz or perhaps even a GHz, and maybe even add a backlit keyboard. Sure, that's not a major major revision, but it's a decent sized revision for sure.

Given the 970's heat issues, it's unlikely we'll see it - at least in its current form - in Powerbooks any time soon. Dual-processor laptops are even less likely. Battery life, heat, size, and power issues aside, it would be completely impractical for Apple to produce dual-processor Powerbooks.

Of course, who says MacBidouille is right? ;)
 
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Rocketman

macrumors 603
Originally posted by Tiauguinho
LOL! Motorola is so sweet! Thank god for IBM really. Im tired of this game with motorola, its always the same thing. I know that its MacBiddou that has this rumor but nonetheless, its looks just tipical Motorola. Please IBM, hurry up with the 90nm PPC970!

Just lower your expectations on Powerbooks to existing tech for about a year. Get a desktop G5 this year and if you need a Powerbook, go ahead with an existing 12 or 17 and be aware that current speeds really are adequate for all but the top 2% of users.

But when 90nm comes out in mid-2004 or later, you can BET I will be first in line to buy a dozen or so RevA for my company. The TiG4 RevA 400/500 were a no-regrets buy.

Rocketman
 
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A

AhmedFaisal

Guest
Argh... always these G5 gets too hot posts...

Listen, the G5 gets about as hot as the 7455 if not a little less. So if you clock it down to say 1.4GHz it should be just fine. The main thing that I believe will postpone the G5 PB is the design of a completely new Chipset & Mobo, that is what also delayed the G4 Powerbook, nothing else. Will we see a G5 Powerbook, yes and I believe we will see it by the end of this year. The availability of the G4 7457 is in my eyes irrelevant, we will not see this chip in a Mac ever. Why? Because the iMac and eMac will get slow clock G5s (1.3 & 1.6 GHz respectively) and the iBook will stick with the G3. Why G3? Because while everybody has been buzzing about the G5 IBM also has disclosed more details on future G3 development. We are talking 1MB of L2 Cache on Die at full CPU speed, 90nm and clock speed at 1.3GHz while still dissipating not more than 11Watts. Perfect for a small entry level notebook, thats btw. the same clockspeed that the slower Centrinos from Intel have. Along with a 200MHz FSB they will be perfect. And guess what, for G3 beyond Gobi, Altivec has appeared in the Specs, and not Motorola's Altivec, but IBMs Altivec.
Cheers,

Ahmed
 
Comment

nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,546
1,196
I do think a dual CPU laptop may well be practical if Apple needs a high-end interim solution:

* If one CPU can fit in the 15", surely two can fit in the 17".

* Cooling can be handled by the 17"'s surface area, plus more fans.

* To drive the second CPU (and its fans) without losing battery life, simply shut down 1 CPU (either enforced or optional) when on battery.

I wouldn't say no to a dual G5 17" next year... and I might settle for a dual G4 this year, if the GPU were high-end enough.
 
Comment

jettredmont

macrumors 68030
Jul 25, 2002
2,728
328
Re: [RUMOUR] No PPC 7457's in new PB's

Originally posted by astray
Taken from MacBidouille, google translation:


[ Rumours ] No PPC 7457 in Aluminum, etc - Ewok - 13:23:26
[...]
One can deduce from it that it will be integrated in AluBooks for January.


One can also deduce that, given a few more months delay by Moto, we may never see a 7457 in a production Apple laptop. Ever. And I, for one, would not be upset about it (7457 is such a minor bump over the existing lineup; I seriously doubt that the much-rumored "RM" successor will get out the door at Moto either). I rather expect to see IBM G3+Altivec rechristened G4s (Apple has made it clear that "+Altivec" is the differentiator here, nothing else) and to replace Moto's lineup until Moto gets its act back together or someone else steps in to take over Moto's side of the PPC desktop business.

Moto continues to dig its own grave with a shovel of incompetence and a pick axe of ineptitude.
 
Comment

jettredmont

macrumors 68030
Jul 25, 2002
2,728
328
Originally posted by nagromme
I do think a dual CPU laptop may well be practical if Apple needs a high-end interim solution:

[...]

I wouldn't say no to a dual G5 17" next year... and I might settle for a dual G4 this year, if the GPU were high-end enough.

But, the key problem with dual G4s is the shared memory bus, which keeps you from getting everything out of those two processors (without this braindead FSB design, I have no doubt that a dual-G4 machine would have absolutely rocked ... as it is a dual-G4 is more responsive than a single G4 but not a whole lot faster overall, and nowhere near as fast as a P4).

Compound that with the more restricetd buses of a laptop in general (for heat reasons) and you have very little benefit from dual G4s in a laptop. There would be a benefit, of course, but not to the degree that you benefit from dual procs in a desktop.

Add to that reduced benefit the cost factors: more expensive (chip+motherboard), requires a MB redesign, consumes twice as much power for the CPUs, etc. I'd be a bit surprised to see dual G4 CPUs in a laptop.

That having been said, I can see Apple doing this, for no reason other than marketting: dual-proc laptops open up a whole world of marketting possibilities. And, frankly, Apple has no other choice other than severely dissapointing speed bumps until the 970 is viable as a laptop proc (yes, peak heat production can be made OK with the 970 if you cut it down to a 1.2GHz clock rate, but there's no stepping down for battery conservation that I've seen, just sleep modes ... and don't compare the G5 to P4 chips; Apple won't be coming out with a 2" thick, 100dB laptop model anytime soon, and that's what those P4s need to be just to whisk away the heat!)

So, chances of seeing it are probably pretty good. Chances of it being worth the money and inevitable hype are generally fairly low (except for some segments of the market).
 
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ZildjianKX

macrumors 68000
May 18, 2003
1,610
0
Wow, this would really blow if its true.

For me to buy a new 15"... at least 1 of these three need to be met, which are all respectable I think.

15.4" screen
Radeon 9600
G5

Just if any of those were in it, I'd feel somewhat content... but an old G4 processor, a NVIDIA card, and the same low resolution screen? This is going to be a model to skip.
 
Comment

skymaXimus

macrumors regular
Mar 3, 2003
216
0
Off topic a little bit ... How long was the G4 in desktops before it made it into PowerBooks? I still consider the last version of the Pismo to be one of Apples best laptops ever. Did Pismo sales drop in anticiaption of a G4 PowerBook just like current PowerBook sales are waining? Also, the design of the G4pb vs the Pismo was totally different. I don't think anyone has taken into consideration that Apple just recently released the Alu book and that when the G5 makes it into the PB the design probably won't be of the Alu era. Just random thoughts.
 
Comment

brucku

macrumors regular
Jun 19, 2003
191
19
What?

Are you kidding me.... We wait weeks and months for a Powerbook based on a chip. Then we find out that it won't be in that powerbook... and we still dont have the laptops.

All I want is better airport reception!!! I'd take the bluetooth, the backlit keys, FW800, usb2.0 and aluminum as a bonus.

I don't even care about the speed bump. I just wanted something that was weeks old, not almost a year old. I also dont like the Ti formfactor because it marks the screen.


So i would have bought no matter what they released, i figured this wait was worth it because it was going to mean a new processor with 1.2 or so processor.

So we wait all this time and we are now told there is no new chip ?

I'm a little confused. Is there even going to be a new powerbook ??? EVER???

:confused: little worried because i've been waiting since may.
 
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chazmox

macrumors regular
Feb 4, 2003
208
0
Motorola just takes the cake! The 7457 wasn't much of a technology leap but yet they still manage to screw it up! I was wondering what happenned to the 7457 when TS released the new iMac specs last week showing the 7455.

But if it is the same processor then why all the wait? Maybe heat issues with a higher clocked 7455 have Apple scurrying to design in more heat piping...

I really wonder how much of a jump this model will be... I think it makes using the G5 for the Powerbooks even more of a possibility. There is a slight consumption advantage to the G5 at equivalent processor speed. With a slightly slower FSB then it is just possible. It just depends on when Apple knew that MOT was not going to be there for them and if there was enough time to get new system controller out. I have my doubts and the timeline seems to short, but lets hope...

I've never been one to totally get rid of Motorola as a CPU partner - there are definite advantages to second sources of at least alternate partners. Mainly they keep your suppliers on their toes and keep them from letting the relationship get stale. But, jeez, it's almost like Mot wants to run customers off!
 
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aras

macrumors newbie
Aug 24, 2003
9
0
Champaign, IL
Sad but expected. Still - like the Pismo which was the pinacle of the old powerbook models, I'll buy one of these final gen powerbook g4's - they are well engineered with bugs worked out.

Still living on my lombard, this baby has come a long way - but with a fried cache, its time for a new baby.
 
Comment

StuPid QPid

macrumors member
Our Jobs which art in Cupertino, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in Mac OS X as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily PowerBook rumor. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from Motorola. Amen.

With apologies :cool:
 
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chetwilliams

macrumors member
Jul 17, 2002
32
0
Re: Argh... always these G5 gets too hot posts...

Originally posted by AhmedFaisal
Listen, the G5 gets about as hot as the 7455 if not a little less.

Please point me to where you got your information on the G5 heat dissipation.
 
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CmdrLaForge

macrumors 601
Feb 26, 2003
4,489
2,674
around the world
G4 with dual core

Hello,

I read in a Mac magazine (Macup) that Moto is developing a G4 with a dual core. Process used is 90nm.

That would be a really great chip for the PB and iMacs !

Anyone else who read about that ?
 
Comment

ZildjianKX

macrumors 68000
May 18, 2003
1,610
0
Wow, I really do want to buy a powerbook... but come on.

What part of "top of the line" is unclear to Apple? And don't be telling me a 1.2 GHz G4 is top of the line by any stretch.
 
Comment

chazmox

macrumors regular
Feb 4, 2003
208
0
Re: Re: Argh... always these G5 gets too hot posts...

Originally posted by chetwilliams
Please point me to where you got your information on the G5 heat dissipation.


http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/A1387A29AC1C2AE087256C5200611780

Here you'll see on page 14 42Watts listed at 1.8 Ghz and 19 Watts at 1.2 GHz. This document is almost a year old, so at first I discounted it. EETimes came out with higher numbers and the 9 fans in the G5 would seem to indicate higher power consumption, but then this doc...

http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/7874C7DA8607C0B287256BF3006FBE54

Lists the power consumption at 1.8 GHz to be 47Watts. This is a after production run doc so the numbers are probably pretty accurate. We could expect the 1.2 GHz chips to scale to around 22Watts.

I'm sorry, but I've tried to download info on the 7455 from Motorola but I can't get to the page. If memory serves me correctly, the 7455 is around 20 watts at 1 Ghz.

BTW, I'm coming to the conclusion that the nine fans in the new G5 case are for quiet, efficient cooling today but also a look to hotter processors in the next 3-5 years. The case was designed for a long life.
 
Comment

smartperson

macrumors newbie
Jun 27, 2003
20
0
New York
Oh well, I'll wait

I can wait, I suppose...

Whatever comes out will have to be better than what's out there now, or Apple HQ will be burned down by annoyed want-to-be powerbook users...

It'll happen, y'know.

Personally, I agree with Arn on the decision to make this a Page 2 Rumor. I really think no one knows what Apple is up to anymore. It seems like either they have something huge planned and it's ultra secretive or they have nothing planned at all.

Expect either everything or nothing in the months to come. Of course, after the G5 incident, I would bet Apple's become a lot more careful about keeping their internal information just that...internal. I expect nothing, but hope for everything, myself.

I need my 15 inches of Powerbook lovin'! ;)
 
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crees!

macrumors 68000
Jun 14, 2003
1,924
41
MD/VA/DC
June 2, 2003

http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail/0,1958,2687_2175_23,00.html

Motorola Delivers Volume Shipments of Low-K Microprocessors

Advanced Low-K Process Helps PowerPC™ Microprocessors Improve Performance and Reduce Power Consumption

AUSTIN, Texas - June 2, 2003 - Motorola, Inc. (NYSE:MOT) has delivered some of the first volume shipments of microprocessors produced using a low-k insulating dielectric during the metallization process. Motorola has applied this process to PowerPC microprocessor products including the G4 PowerPC processor, Motorola's MPC 7455 and the recently introduced 7457.
 
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Felix_the_Mac

macrumors member
Aug 18, 2003
92
0
UK
Motorloa doesnt deserve my custom

I am a possible switcher.

What I want from my new laptop are:

Wide screen
Good battery life
Not to thick
Built in bluetooth
Built in wireless networking.

So I ened up looking at the Powerbook 15" (..and the rumour sites!)

The OS X is appealing but also will reduce my choice of available software. And buying VirtualPC and Office vX is going to bump up the total cost of the package steeply (not to mention the Airport Extreme base station with modem and maybe a Bluetooth printer)

However, although processor speed is not a defining factor for me a I do want a machine that is going to last 4-5 years, with possible (amateur) video editing and who knows what else in my future I dont want to pay top dollar for a machine that runs like a 1.4 GHz PC.

I would have bought a 1.33 7457 based Powerbook (being 40% faster than the current model, maybe equivalent to a 2GHz PC), but there is no way that I am going to buy a 7455 1.25 GHz powerbook with worse battery life and higher heat production.

The only way that I may buy the (hoped for) new Alu Powerbook before it hits G5 is if the 1GHz AluBook is CONSIDERABLY (25%) cheaper than the current 1GHZ 15".

If not it is a choice of waiting for G5 Powerbook or getting a new PC based laptop.

I dont know if I can wait another 10 months for the G5 ....
 
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