Russian Opposition Leader Assassinated in Moscow

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by ucfgrad93, Feb 27, 2015.

  1. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #101
    I'm getting the impression that solving problems with war is just fine with you.
     
  2. kds1 Suspended

    kds1

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    #102
    Well, you ARE the man who stated a few replies back that being occupied is better than death.....

    I never thought I'd use this term but, "surrender monkeys".
     
  3. Hieveryone macrumors 601

    Hieveryone

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    #103
    Putin knows how to lay down the law. Mess with him, you know he's got it.

    Is it right? Absolutely not. I am an American. I believe in the FIRST Amendment.

    But Putin is letting the world know- don't talk ish!
     
  4. kds1 Suspended

    kds1

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    #104
    If necessary. Putin understands force more than anything else. War is never good, but sometimes it's an evil necessity.

    ..Which is I why I would not cut the U.S. defense budget and believe in a strong and well equipped military.
     
  5. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #105
    He is a politician isn't that normal.

    That's the same as saying well the death toll of the WTC, was a small percentage of US population, so who cares.
     
  6. Scepticalscribe, Feb 28, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2015

    Scepticalscribe macrumors Westmere

    Scepticalscribe

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    #106
    Firstly, George H W Bush was President of the USA during the entire period of the Soviet collapse. It is a nonsense, - factually and historically inaccurate - as well as intellectually dishonest - to try to argue that 'he was practically out of office' by the time the Soviet Union disintegrated. 'Practically'? He was POTUS during that entire period of time. It all happened on his watch. The USSR was formally dissolved on December 25 1991 - G H W Bush was still President. Seriously, mangle and traduce Eurpoean history if you must, but try to get US history right at the very least.

    Secondly, Mr Yanukovich was the President who was ousted last year, not Mr Yushchenko.

    Thirdly, I have attempted to explain to you that Ukraine, as currently constructed, is lying across a rather unstable fault line, in political (and cultural) terms. This need not lead to a splintered state, but it most likely will. This is because many of those currently living in the western and eastern parts of the country deny the right of the other region to their perspective and traditions and loyalties.

    These different identities, and traditions, include a different history, language, religion, - in the two regions of the country - and - for want of a different word - a different political perspective that gives validity to one's view and sense of identity. This need not give rise to two political entities, or regions, or countries, but unless a version of Ukraine can be forged that allows both sets of identities and imagery to be included in what is considered Ukraine, then, I wouldn't hold out too much hope.

    Thus, the west of Ukraine does not wish to be a part of Russia. Neither, does the east, (or, neither did the east) but the east of Ukraine most certainly wishes for its sense of identity - which leans towards Russia, linguistically, religiously, and culturally - to be recognised, acknowledged and respected.




    Actually, no, he won't. The cost would be too high.
     
  7. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #107
    But not serve, and put your body on the line, but you are willing to send somebody else off to die for your beliefs.
     
  8. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #108
    The military industrial complex thanks you.
     
  9. Scepticalscribe macrumors Westmere

    Scepticalscribe

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    #109
    No, I don't know what you mean. It was not 'the same smell'. They were in the Warsaw Pact. They were not in the USSR.

    Ukraine was, yes, as were the Baltic states, but not Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria, Romania, and the DDR.

    Yes, it has been gone over countless times. You think of military conflict as a first option. Most Europeans do not.

    I do not see Mr Putin attacking states that are in NATO; the - eventual - cost - not least from his own supporters - will be too high were he to do so.
     
  10. kds1 Suspended

    kds1

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    #110


    Yes, December 25th when it finally fell apart. GHB was President until January. He was a lame duck president at that point and nearly out of office.

    Excuse me. I got the name Ukrainian "Y" names mixed up. But you know I meant the other.

    Putin stirred them up to cause trouble for Ukraine. There would be no separatist movement, or would have only been a small one, and one that would have been long quashed by now had Putin not started meddling.

    ----------

    Warsaw Pact were all Soviet Satellite PUPPET STATES IN THE USSR ORBIT.

    (It's funny how you assume I don't know about the Warsaw Pact).

    And no, I DO NOT think of war as a first option. You find where I said that and quote it. YOU CAN'T.
     
  11. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #111
    Yes, so long as he doesn't have to do the fighting.
     
  12. k995 macrumors 6502a

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    #112
    Not if it is about troops in foreign nations.

    Thats BS, growth/import/export/unemployment, stock exchanges,...

    It felt narely anything of the russian sanctions, russia did feel the impact of the santions.

    Dont know why you want to pretend it hurt the EU badly . A couple of billion already large compensated is not even 0.1% of the GDP
     
  13. kds1 Suspended

    kds1

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    #113
    They are welcome. Be grateful. They protect your ass.
     
  14. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #114
    It hurt a friend of mine, that enough for me, it's called empathy.
     
  15. kds1 Suspended

    kds1

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    #115
    Skip. Skip. Skip. Skip. Skip.
     
  16. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #116
    chicken yellow chicken yellow chicken
     
  17. kds1 Suspended

    kds1

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    #117
    Hey did you know that you can buy digital downloads these days? They don't scratch and skip like analog needle and groove discs.

    ----------

    lol
     
  18. Scepticalscribe macrumors Westmere

    Scepticalscribe

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    #118
    I beg to differ.

    He was not a lame duck President during the period of time leading up to the Soviet disintegration - the entire period from the Fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, the unification of Germany, though the attempted coup against Mr Gorbachev in August 1991, up to the final implosion of the regime. It is disingenuous and intellectually dishonest to claim otherwise. Frankly, it is a fatuous argument to attempt to claim otherwise.

    I do know you meant the other; however, it is still better to write the correct name, rather than the name of the person (Mr Yushenko) who replaced him in 2004, (Mr Yanukovich) and whom, he in turn replaced, in 2010.

    No, I think that the divisions do go a lot deeper than that.

    Ukraine as an independent state has existed since 1992. However, it has never managed to integrate the two parts of the country as each part - whenever they were in the ascendent - ruled solely in the interests of their side and their perspective, going out of their way to exclude the other.

    This may have been emotionally, psychologically and - indeed - politically satisfying. However, it is not conducive to the construction of a long term sense of identity, and unity, or to the process of state building, still less to the sort of state building which hopes to engender a sense of loyalty to a set of structures and an architecture which might command such loyalty from both regions of the country.
     
  19. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #119
    Glad you enjoyed :p
     
  20. kds1 Suspended

    kds1

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    #120
    He was a lame duck president on Dec 25th, 1991. He had already lost the election to Clinton.
     
  21. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #121
    Bush after the 1991 war had 88%
    But here was a president who had won a war and was defeated by Clinton over the ECONOMY.

    It's the ECONOMY stupid.
     
  22. Scepticalscribe macrumors Westmere

    Scepticalscribe

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    #122
    They were not 'Puppet States' in the strict sense of the word. They were coerced or persuaded allies, the old carrot-and-stick approach - some enthusiastically, others a lot less so.

    Soviet influence and control - of the entire region - waxed and waned and varied throughout that entire period. It was more complete in some countries and a lot less comprehensive in others; much of the time, it was an ongoing negotiation, and testing and flexing of boundaries.

    I would argue that it was never quite as complete as western opinion thought, and in some countries it was a bitterly negotiated mutually disliked complicity (and here, I am thinking of Poland, where the Soviets never controlled the Catholic Church, and where land was never collectivised, even when Stalin still ruled).



    He was in office during the entire period of the slow collapse of the USSR.

    Your arguments are disingenuous.

     
  23. kds1 Suspended

    kds1

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    #123
    What? What does that have to do with anything?

    ----------

    Not they are not.

    You're right, he was. I said he was practically out of office by the time the Soviet Union went out of business. That's what I meant when I said collapse. As in, the actual final collapse, the crash, not the sagging leading up to it.
     
  24. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #124
    It's better to win the PEACE than a war. First off there is more profit long term.
     
  25. kds1 Suspended

    kds1

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    #125

    Listen, we (meaning the West) didn't call it the Iron Curtain for nothing. They all had communism shoved down their throats in one form or another, including East Germany. Soviet tanks rolled into Hungary in 1958. Hungary didn't like that. It was the cause of the famous "Blood in the Water" water polo match between the Soviet Union and Hungary during the Melbourne Olympics. So, yeah, they resented it. That's why after the USSR went out of business, Most of them joined the EU and some of them NATO. Because they didn't want Russia ****ing with them again. Putin doesn't particularly like that fact. He thinks they should all still be aligned with Russia. He doesn't get it (it seems).

    ----------

    Well I'm not going to argue war is good, but, there is evidence that war can be good for the economy, either through industry needed to support the war effort or technology that's developed because of it. At any rate, you'll never get peace with Putin unless you give him what he wants, and he'll take as much as he can push you for. And really, you really don't want to give him what he really wants.
     

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