S.F. considers ‘shooting gallery’ for drug addicts

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Prof., Oct 18, 2007.

  1. Prof. macrumors 601

    Prof.

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  2. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #2
    Lack of titties?
     
  3. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #3
    I was going to say it looks like he didn't tie off his arm, or whatever I've seen them do in the movies.
     
  4. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    Things like this leave me speachless. I suppose we'll have to pay for their healthcare after they've abused themselves too.:mad:
     
  5. Queso macrumors G4

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    #5
    What would you rather, that they inject in your kid's playground? Unless there's a serious effort put into rehab places, the number of junkies isn't going to go down. At least if they're injecting somewhere like that they're not leaving needles all over the place.
     
  6. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #6
    And you're supposedly against the drug war? This can only be a good thing. At least these people will be exposed to medical personnel who might talk to them about rehab.
     
  7. xUKHCx Administrator emeritus

    xUKHCx

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    #7
    agreed this is a positive step towards rehabilitation as they can have counsellers and such at these centres and monitor the general health . Also if there is a bad batch then it will be evident very quickly in places like this.
     
  8. Naimfan macrumors 68040

    Naimfan

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  9. leekohler macrumors G5

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    #9
    Got anything constructive to add? Honestly, what is your solution?
     
  10. Naimfan macrumors 68040

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    #10
    Two points.

    One, either get serious about controlling the drug trade or just admit the political will to do isn't there and legalize it so it can be regulated and taxed.

    Second, where were you with that comment to Iscariot's answer? My point is that it is LUDICROUS and counterproductive for a municipal government to be not only condoning but aiding and abetting in the commission of a felony.

    And your solution is......what?
     
  11. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #11
    Thanks- and while Iscariot may deserve the same reaction, you expressed a judgement on the issue while he did not. And to be quite honest, given our past conversations, I expect more from you. ;)

    And I agree with you, it's time to legalize drugs. It's truly the only thing that's going to work. You can't treat people with addiction problems by simply arresting them and throwing them in jail. It accomplishes nothing. In the meantime, how do we treat the addict in the current legal framework? How do you get someone to seek help if you're only going to arrest them? I see this as a first step to ridding ourselves of drug laws for good.
     
  12. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #12
    Lets not forget sooner or later, we'll have to pay for the drugs as well.
     
  13. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #13
    Apparently, Naimfan, judgements aren't allowed. Have to be tolerant you know. Now go to your room for a time out. You can come back in five minutes. ;)
     
  14. Queso macrumors G4

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    #14
    We already do, via increased insurance premiums from all the crime that addicts cause. The current system doesn't work. That's why SF are trying initiatives such as this to see whether it helps reduce the drug-related crime whilst actually helping those that are addicted.

    It's not a magic solution, but it's worth a try.
     
  15. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #15
    Of course I'm against the War on Drugs. Instead of incarceration for ANY drug I want funding for treatment (taken from the vice squad budgets and all the money from asset forfeiture). However, being an enabler for them to continue their lifestyle without treatment to end their addiction I think is misdirected.

    Yes, this is a little better than what they experience now, but I don't see it as being the ideal solution to addiction to that particular class of drugs.

    Now, if they wanted to provide a safehouse for people to smoke herbs, then I'm all for it. :)
     
  16. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #16
    If you have a problem with me, I'd appreciate it if you'd address me directly. At no time did I ever suggest that naimfan was being "intolerant" or whatever else you want to call it. And as a matter of fact, I get along pretty well with naimfan. And as for my earlier comment, Iscariot was commenting on the post itself, not the issue the post was about. Neither comment was helpful. Get over it.

    Oh! We have to talk! :)
     
  17. CanadaRAM macrumors G5

    CanadaRAM

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    #17
    In Canada we call them Safe Injection Sites. No drugs are provided, but clean needles, and sterilization equipment, and there is a nurse onsite to provide help for health issues. There are referral materials always available for detox and rehab, but it isn't pushed on the users.

    The whole principle is harm reduction. Cut down the spread of hepatitis and AIDS. Get people into medical help when they need it. Give them referrals and options to safely get off of their addiction.
    I can't remember the stats, but something like 40% were referred to treatment.

    Do you understand that for someone addicted to heroin, this isn't a matter of personal choice, whether they get their next fix or not? You might as well tell someone that breathing is outlawed and they need to make the personal choice to stop breathing.

    A civil society helps their citizens who are sick, and helps them towards heath.
    It also takes steps to minimize the harm to the citizen and to others around them.
     
  18. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #18
    Stop making sense or we'll have to invade your country next for trying to infect our country with your communist ways. ;)
     
  19. Ugg macrumors 68000

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    #19
    Canada's program has been pretty successful as have The Netherlands' and Switzerland's.

    Drug use has been a fact of life forever. What's changed is the diseases that go along with drug injection. AIDS and HepC are extremely expensive to treat. Offering a supervised environment along with a nurse and counseling opportunities is a great way of reaching out to injecting drug users.

    Ignoring the problem will never make it go away.
     
  20. vanmacguy macrumors 6502a

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    #20
    I live in Vancouver Canada where we've had these places for a few years now.

    The purpose of them is to ensure that junkies have somewhere they can take their drugs to and use clean needles. They can shoot up knowing that they're not passing on diseases that are transmitted by using infected implements.

    They're not to legalise drugs, but junkies are going to 'use' anyway, you might as well limit the health care issues to rehabilitating a drug user and eliminate having to treat them for AIDS. Studies have shown that having a safe injection site makes a lot of sense. They don't pass on disease, and the people trying to reform them get an audience with the user.

    Until society starts to treat drug addiction as an illness and stops treating it as a crime, we're never going to solve it.

    What's the point of locking up an addict that broke into your car for spare change to buy something he can't afford but can't live without? What's going to happen as soon as he's free (not being sexist I know there are female addicts, I'm just keeping this dialog simple)? He's going right back to do it again because he has no choice. We have to rehabilitate them, fix them, give them options and an opportunity for rehabilitation, not lock them up.

    Addicts are people like you and me and everyone else. They just made a couple of bad decisions and have gone down the wrong path.

    In Vancouver, addicts will break into your car for empty pop cans, seriously. All they want is enough for the next hit. Which runs now at around 5 bucks for a rock.

    Would you rather give them 5 bucks or have them do hundreds in damage breaking into your car? Take that a step further, would you rather see a small hike in your taxes or have health care costs go through the roof in trying to keep someone who is dying of AIDS (and horrifically their kids) alive?

    Drug addiction is a huge problem and it's not one that's going away. Safe injection sites are a major step forward in controlling the spread of drug-related diseases and in rehabilitating the addicts.

    Sorry for the rant, I heard this story on the radio yesterday and was happy that SF is taking this move. In Vancouver we have an enormous problem with this and if you go to the downtown east-side, they are pitiful. Someone has to help these poor people where their only mistake was a couple of bad decisions.

    At one time, pretty much all of them were just like you and me.

    Cheers.
     
  21. vanmacguy macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    I didn't see this post before launching into my own rant.

    Right on CanadaRAM.

    Cheers.
     
  22. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    On this we agree. That and the futility of incarceration for having an addiction.
     
  23. halfprep455 macrumors regular

    halfprep455

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    #23
    I am a very strong believer that you have the right to put what ever you want into your body. I am strongly against the war on drugs. However, I don't think that this place is a good idea. That money should be invested in a program to help addicts with their habit. This place is only encouraging it. These people need treatment. They don't need a safe place to do their drugs. And the worst part about it is, why should the public have to pay for their needles and their health care. I just can't understand why they won't invest their money in a good rehabilitation center!
     
  24. vanmacguy macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    A rehabilitation centre relies on people showing up. Only those addicts that want to change and have decided to change will do so. A safe injection site gives councilors a forum in which to talk to addicts and to persuade them to go to a rehab centre.

    And I have no doubt that the cost of treating someone with AIDS is significantly higher than rehabilitating someone off of their addiction. The safe injection site is about stopping the spread of disease and getting some face-time with addicts.

    Most of the time (in Vancouver at least) these sites are staffed by volunteers. So there's no salaries to pay. Needles cost pennies, perhaps even less, premises is the only real cost.

    I used to live downtown and could not take my kids to the park because on a number of occasions they came running over to me, used needle in hand saying "what's this dad?" Safe injection sites take this away as long as there are enough of them.

    Can you imagine standing on a used needle? The panic you'd go through? The waiting to see if you were going to die? Wouldn't it be better to know that the used needles are all somewhere secure?

    Just sayin'.
     
  25. CanadaRAM macrumors G5

    CanadaRAM

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    #25
    And how, pray tell, are you going to reach the people who need help, if you drive them underground?

    Yes OF COURSE rehab centres are needed. But you have to make your first line of care at the front lines, in the street.

    It's like you're saying "Don't bother spending money on fixing those traffic lights - we need more auto body shops instead to really fix all those cars that had been in accidents."
     

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