Salem pair accused of abuse to use God as attorney

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by steve knight, Nov 18, 2009.

  1. steve knight Suspended

    steve knight

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    #1
    SALEM, Ore. (AP) - A Salem couple accused of using wires, sticks and household items to abuse four of their seven children told a Marion County judge they are refusing court-appointed attorneys.

    Lyudmila (lyood-MEE-lah) Kozlova told Judge Thomas Hart that she and her husband, Oleksandr, will rely on God when they stand trial on criminal mistreatment charges Dec. 1.

    She told Hart through a Russian interpreter: "You are our judge, but there is another judge over you. It is our God, and he is our lawyer, our defender."

    Hart allowed the couple to represent themselves after deciding they were aware of the risks.

    Three of their children called authorities from a pay phone in July to report alleged abuse.

    ___

    Information from: Statesman Journal, http://www.statesmanjournal.com
     
  2. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #2
    I got beat with a belt when I was a kid, is that a household item?

    If it was real abuse Im glad they used god as their defense, more chance for them to get justice brought on them.
     
  3. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #3
    Guess this is the legal equivalent of a Darwin Award, and quoting God won't exorcise poor Darwin's ghost.
     
  4. eawmp1 macrumors 601

    eawmp1

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    #4
    God is now a lawyer? I would have thought the devil would have more in common with lawyers. I guess this is no different than turning your back on medicine and using God as a doctor.

    I wonder if they are going with the spare the rod and spoil the child defense.
     
  5. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #5
    Ummm... maybe a skillet? Yeah, a skillet to the back of the skull or a shovel. I got whipped with a fishing rod. Boy, you straighten up and flew right after that PDQ.:eek: I had welts that lasted weeks.:(

    Let me do some math here. They abused 4 of their 7 kids. Three of them called authorities. I'm guessing those three are the ones who got away before the abuse started. Some people just shouldn't have kids.:mad:
     
  6. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #6
    Good. Maybe with such a crappy, unqualified lawyer they'll get the maximum sentence allowed.
     
  7. No1451 macrumors 6502

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    #7
    [​IMG]
    Good call guys, my dad kicks ass at helping people!
     
  8. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #8
    Oh man is that gonna suck when god allows them to fail miserably i court.
     
  9. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #9
    The National Enquirer will probably sue them for stealing one of their stories. :)
     
  10. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #10
    I know it's the wrong state, but I say burn 'em at the stake. If they're innocent, their attorney will make it rain. :D
     
  11. synth3tik macrumors 68040

    synth3tik

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    #11
    Oh so every lawyer except God has to pass the bar exam:rolleyes:

    hey wait, why would anyone compare God to a lawyer, seems rather blasphemous.
     
  12. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #12
    Reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Lisa is Joan of Arc and God ends up in court having promised victory to both sides and says "uhhh... I never expected to see you both in the same place. Gotta go..." :D
     
  13. savoirfaire macrumors 6502

    savoirfaire

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    #13
    So, um, what happens when the defendents' attorney fails to show up in court? Just askin'.
     
  14. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #14
    No worries. He's EVERYWHERE!!!
    :p
     
  15. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #15
    Cynic says - they're just setting themselves up for an insanity defense. they are so far off the deep end, they believe that God will directly influence their lives.
     
  16. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #16
    Umm... you realize you're calling the bulk of the population of the nation insane, right?
     
  17. No1451 macrumors 6502

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    #17
    A claim being vast in scope doesn't make it any less valid or arguable.
     
  18. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #18
    While the bulk of the nation believes in deity(ies), I do not believe the bulk of the nation believe that their deity of choice will present their defense in a criminal prosecution.

    If they had simply stated that they believed that God would shape the heart of the court to acquit them, I would have agreed that many who believe themselves innocent would carry that same sentiment. But rational Christians/Jews/Mulsims/Hindus/etc. would get a lawyer.
     
  19. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #19
    You said, and I quote,
    Is that not know as divine intercession? Do people not pray routinely for God to exert some kind of direct influence over their lives, whether such intercession is spiritual, physical, or even monetary? :confused:
     
  20. Shotglass macrumors 65816

    Shotglass

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    #20
    That's not really such an outlandish claim if you consider how many percent of the nation adhere to some sort of religion.
     
  21. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #21
    I'm well aware of that. I'm just wondering whether nbs2 realizes the implications of what he said. Based on his later post, it appears he is trying to walk that statement back such that he only considers you insane if you believe that God will show up in court to defend you. Which, of course, is a vastly different claim than saying that you think you're set up for an insanity defense (ie. that you are insane) if you believe that God can act to directly intercede in your life.
     
  22. steve knight thread starter Suspended

    steve knight

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    #22
    Well God is not a great lawyer it seems.

    Oregon couple convicted of abusing children

    SALEM, Ore. (AP) - Their supporters singing in Russian, two immigrants from Ukraine were escorted from the courthouse in Salem after being found guilty of abusing three of their children with wires, cords belts and sticks.

    "We believe, even if we receive some punishment, God will deliver us," the children's mother had testified, saying they were punished according to Scripture.

    A jury rendered verdicts Friday against Oleksandr and Lyudmila Kozlov on Friday.

    Oleksandr, 41, and Lyudmila, 39, each were convicted on nine counts of criminal mistreatment for the abuse of the three children. The couple came from Ukraine in 2003, according to testimony.

    The couple has seven children. All but an infant daughter testified during the trial.

    Some said their parents repeatedly doled out "hard spankings" that left marks that lasted a week and made their 14-year-old brother miss school out of fear the marks would be discovered.

    They were hit with wires, cords, spoons, sticks, belts and their parents' hands, the children testified. At times, they heard each other being punished.

    Taking the witness stand to testify was the first time they'd seen their parents in more than four months. The three oldest children called authorities from a pay phone July 20, and authorities took them into protective custody.

    At the trial, the couple represented themselves, citing God as their attorney. They said they were being prosecuted for their beliefs and denied the children were abused.

    "Our punishments were a way of discipline," Lyudmila Kozlova said. "You are portraying us as if we were mistreating our children. That is not fair. This is why we ask you to pass a right judgment and return our children."

    Five defense witnesses testified they'd never seen marks on the children, and one said the children were disobedient.

    More than 100 supporters were in the courtroom.

    ___

    Information from: Statesman Journal, http://www.statesmanjournal.com


    I'm on my bycycle don't expect perfect typing from my iphone.
     
  23. CaptMurdock macrumors 6502a

    CaptMurdock

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    #23
    I keep pretty busy doing billing for the attorney I work for, and she does mostly Family Law...

    "Excuse me, sir? This timesheet for creating the universe...six days? Am I supposed to type this with a straight face?" :D
     

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