Same-sex marriages gradually gain legal ground

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by leekohler, May 4, 2009.

  1. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #1
    Good news.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/la-na-gay-marriage-law4-2009may04,0,4246217.story

     
  2. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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  3. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    Haha! Way to b e the first response! Love it! :D
     
  4. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #4
    inb4 harsh comments on how gays marriages and religious statements...

    Really, people 21st century, love thy fellow man.
     
  5. ViciousShadow21 macrumors 68020

    ViciousShadow21

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    #5
    lets try and keep this a friendly argument leekohler and others. im tired of being sarcastic and mean. i think if we can all keep our tempers under control we could actually have a better discussion about this.

    that being said what i meant when i posted that comment in the other thread is that we live in an age where gay couples and being gay is still prejudiced against quite a lot. this is backed up by what happened in California. Also that there are only 4 states in the US and as far as i know, could be wrong, 7 countries that allow it as well. Like i said before if i were going to start a county i would absolutely allow gay ppl to get married. But unfortunately we live in a country where the gay community was looked down upon for a long long time. See Milk.

    In a perfect world gay couples could adopt kids, and those kids would be free of ridicule, but in the world that we live in this is sadly not the case in my experience. Now im not saying that i dont think that gay couples should not be allowed to adopt until all this gets resolved. if that were the case it would never get resolved. those first or second generation kids are going to have to clear the way and make it ok to have gay parents. that is just the way that it works. just like the first interracial couple and so on.
     
  6. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #6
    I think thats what were trying to get to ;)
     
  7. Eanair macrumors 6502

    Eanair

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  8. KompleX macrumors regular

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    #8
    i don't understand how you can say that same sex marriage is gaining ground when the majority of states do not recognize same sex marriage, and even the few states that are considering recognizing it, it's not a sure win.

    then again, i'm a pessimist, so feel free to give me the boot! :D
     
  9. EricNau Moderator emeritus

    EricNau

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    #9
    Gaining is the key word, I think.
     
  10. Eanair macrumors 6502

    Eanair

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    #10
    It's not gay marriage exactly, but they're small steps in the right direction - small recognitions of their partnership, even if not being deemed marriage right now.
     
  11. Wotan31 macrumors 6502

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    #11
    Experimenting on children just seems so... wrong. Why expose them to such trauma for selfish personal reasons? Further, it is standard practice for a mother to be the nurturing and receptive parent while the father enforces rules and issues discipline. Yin and Yang. They work together as a system. Two yins or two yangs creates an unbalanced family, and I believe it has potentially harmful effects on the development of a child. I could never vote in favor of such a thing.

    A great thing about the US is a persons right to choose whatever lifestyle he or she wants to live. In Islamic rule nations, it is illegal to be gay, and punishable by death even. Can you imagine someone being tried, convicted, and executed on charges of homosexuality? Sounds preposterous doesn't it? Happens regularly, and I'm glad it doesn't happen here.

    The government originally created tax breaks and other incentives to promote traditional marriage. It seems a bit misguided to think that gays are somehow "entitled" to these same benefits. That's on the same level as saying single people should be entitled to those same benefits. After all, why should the law discriminate against those who intentionally chose not to marry? And what about pet owners? Having a dog is almost like a relationship, you have to care for it, and groom it and feed it, just like a family member right?

    Legislation such as California's proposition 8 is a great step in the right direction, and will hopefully serve to prevent the unwarranted trauma and suffering of many children.
     
  12. Eanair macrumors 6502

    Eanair

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    #12
    More faulty reasoning with no viable arguments.

    If the two parents have to work together as a system, what about single parents - those who have been divorced or widowed? Would that not also have "potentially harmful effects on the development of a child"? By your logic, we should remove children from single parent households as well.
     
  13. Wotan31 macrumors 6502

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    #13
    No, removing a child from a single-parent household is not the right answer, but there are studies that show potential for developmental harm to children raised by a single parent. Your reasoning is faulty and you have no viable arguments here.
     
  14. Eanair macrumors 6502

    Eanair

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    #14
    Please link to such studies.

    You claim that a balanced family must have a mother and father, otherwise, it would subject the child to developmental trauma. If this is your claim (family must have a mother and father), then a family with a single mother or father is similarly not balanced. And as you wish to not subject children to such trauma of an unbalanced family, then you must either remove the child from such an unbalanced situation and place him/her in the proper balanced situation, or force the single parent to marry a partner of the opposite sex to restore the lost balance. You've now claimed that you do not wish to remove a child from such a household as it's not the right answer. You will then instead promote forced marriages of the single parent?

    If we must enforce gays to not children to protect the welfare of the children, surely we must enforce marriage of single parents to protect the welfare of the children.

    Ahh, another reference to the animals.

    You know, the anti-gay marriage folks always say how perverted the gays are. But it's always them who start talking about people having relationships with animals.

    And they think we're weird.
     
  15. jmann macrumors 604

    jmann

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    #15
    I like New York's policy on Same-sex Marriage, It's a nice halfway point. I wish more states did that at least. :(
     
  16. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    #16
    I think it might be fair to say that a single parent raising a child isn't necessarily the "ideal," but I can't agree that it's per se bad. I was raised by a single mother until I was 5, and I turned out fine. Stop snickering.
     
  17. Wotan31 macrumors 6502

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    #17
    "Single parent families are at a higher risk of poverty than couple families, and on average single mothers have poorer health than couple mothers.[2]

    Single parenting is strongly associated with an increased risk of a number of negative social, behavioral and emotional outcomes for children."

    Source. Studies are linked at the bottom of the page.

    Eww, I didn't say a sexual relationship. :eek: That's disgusting. Why do gays always accuse pet owners of bestiality?

    I agree, never said it was "bad". Only that it has a higher potential for problems. I'm sure the majority of children raised by single parents are perfectly fine too.
     
  18. EricNau Moderator emeritus

    EricNau

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    #18
    The studies to which I believe you are referring are not relevant to this discussion.

    Yes, many single-parent households are less than ideal due to a myriad of variables, including cultural surroundings and socioeconomic conditions, but not because of the single parent specifically.

    Assuming all parties are worthy of adoption (be it a single parent, opposite-sex, or same-sex couple), I have yet to see any research that indicates one parental situation is preferential over the other.

    In other words, if all variables are controlled except for the gender and the number of parents (1 or 2), then there is no significant advantage or disadvantage to any situation.
     
  19. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #19
    Maybe in Leave it to Beaver it's that way. My mom was always the one enforcing my rules and disciplining my siblings and I, and my dad never cared what we did and we could get away with anything with him. And we turned out fine.

    In a gay couple, couldn't one parent be nurturing and the other one be the discipline? There's no rule that says the woman has to be one thing and the man can be the other.
     
  20. Eanair macrumors 6502

    Eanair

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    #20
    The [2] article source link is broken.

    As for your second quote, if you read the actual article the quote is from, here is the entire passage:

    http://www.aph.gov.au/LIBRARY/Pubs/RN/2001-02/02rn41.htm

    It is not the single parenting itself, or the lack of a father itself, that causes such negative outcomes - it is the age, education, and economic/social isolation that some single mothers have that contributes to the negative outcomes. Such disadvantages (young parents, lack of education, economic/social isolation) are not restricted to single parents. Such socio-economic problems can be found in heterosexual families as well.

    Additionally, the same article also says this:

    And then the same article goes on to say this:

    Neither did I.
     
  21. iPhoneNYC macrumors 6502a

    iPhoneNYC

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    #21
    It's clear that this country is on the way. East coast/west coast/ now middle state. The hard part has been won, it just a matter of time for all states.
     
  22. Eanair macrumors 6502

    Eanair

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    #22
    The edit function to add another quote isn't working for my last post, so here's more:

    The same article goes on to finish with this:

    http://www.aph.gov.au/LIBRARY/Pubs/RN/2001-02/02rn41.htm
     
  23. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #23
    Annoy a conservative: use facts and logic.

    Homosexuals have been raising kids for decades. The only people traumatizing them are the ignorant fools who refuse to deal with reality. Here's an idea- why don't you talk to some of the people in this forum with same sex parents and see what they think?
     
  24. DZ/015 macrumors 6502a

    DZ/015

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    #24
    It is about time that homosexuals are getting married. Let them suffer like the rest of us.;)

    As a heterosexual atheist, I really do not care if 2 men or 2 women get married. As a resident of MA, gay marriage is legal. Society has not collapsed as a result. I even have taught my children, it may not be right for you, but it is right for them. Don't judge others as you do yourself. Let everyone live their life as they see fit as long as no harm is done.

    And Lee, if you weren't a dude, your views on gun ownership would make me want you, bad.
     
  25. ZiggyPastorius macrumors 68040

    ZiggyPastorius

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    #25
    I have a single parent...who is a lesbian!

    And look at how messed up I am, Lee.

    ;)
     

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