Samsung's Massive Document Outlining How to Improve Galaxy S by Adopting iPhone Solutions Surfaces

[Technarchy]

Apple won't license anything, so Samsung will come up with a new version of their UI

Which is exactly what everyone should want to happen.

Stealing someone elses stuff and branding it your own is not competition, and is a disservice to the consumer, because it kills choice with some BS version of choice.

The only real competition and choice comes from making your own stuff and successfully marketing it.

 

[TMay]

1. Apple will continue innovating win or lose in this case.
2. Samsung innovate as much if not more than Apple. See their patents granted per year, not to mention their newer offerings.

Win or Lose, no matter the side, there's only 1 true winner : the lawyers.

Samsung is a conglomerate. Patents for ships, appliances, industrial processes, are not relevant to smartphones.

Compare relevant patents, and compare only those that are not Standard Essential, because only those will have value in a patent battle.

 

[cgc]

Samsung is a conglomerate. Patents for ships, appliances, industrial processes, are not relevant to smartphones.

Compare relevant patents, and compare only those that are not Standard Essential, because only those will have value in a patent battle.

How is that relevant to this discussion?

 

[TMay]

How is that relevant to this discussion?

Just as irrelevant as KnightWRX and others who bring it in to the discussion, i.e, innovation by Samsung v. Apple measured by corporate patents.

 

[samcraig]

Can someone please explain to me what motivation some of the posters on here have to defending Samsung so vigorously?

It is almost as if some of them have something to gain or lose from this trial or the effort of defending Samsung in this forum.

Can someone please explain to me what motivation some of the posters on here have to defend Apple so vigorously.

It is almost as if some of them have something to gain or lose from this trial or the effort of defending Apple in this forum

See how that works?

And please don't confuse defending with clarifying facts and/or debunking myth.

Which is exactly what everyone should want to happen.

Stealing someone elses stuff and branding it your own is not competition, and is a disservice to the consumer, because it kills choice with some BS version of choice.

The only real competition and choice comes from making your own stuff and successfully marketing it.

Well honestly - I predict that whatever changes will be made will be as minimal as Samsung can get away with and adhere to whatever guidelines the suit brings forth.

ETA: I don't completely agree with your assertion about choice. If only because if you want to say the OSes are identical or very very close (which I think is a stretch) - you still have various form factors and other specs which still offer choice. Not perceived choice - but choice.

 

[Nalim]

Yeah - because it was used for emotional, not logical reasons.

PS: Challenge is still there, how would you make a button bigger without increasing its size ?
Anyone ?

That's easy, just make the phone smaller.

 

[Rennir]

So sick of these arguments that I don't even want to prove others wrong anymore...can Samsung and Apple just finish this suit already?

 

[applebook]

I own a Galaxy Infuse and have owned many Galaxy phones. The only iPhone that I've ever had was the iP4, which I sold rather quickly.

I would be an idiot to claim that Samsung didn't flat-out copy the iPhone.

 

[hchung]

Can someone please explain to me what motivation some of the posters on here have to defend Apple so vigorously.

It is almost as if some of them have something to gain or lose from this trial or the effort of defending Apple in this forum

See how that works?

And please don't confuse defending with clarifying facts and/or debunking myth.

I'll bite.

If Samsung wins, it encourages other Android manufacturers to also aggressively copy Apple's UI. This is problematic for two reasons:
1) as a customer, I get a choice of iPhone, Windows Mobile 7, or a bunch of crappy iOS knockoffs. What's the point of choice when most of it is crap?
2) if Apple can't defend its uniqueness, what motivation does it have of innovating when they're pretty sure anything good they do will get copied? Less motivation to innovate hurts us all, especially when it's a company that has a track record of bringing out polished cutting edge designs.

If Apple wins, it encourages other Android manufacturers to do something different. This is beneficial because:
1) More actual variety equals more choice.
2) More variety also leads to more inspiration, which increases the likelihood of even more interesting designs from the industry as a whole.
3) An Apple win doesn't simply mean Apple gets to defend its innovations. It means any company who brings something new and unique to the market has a better shot at defending their innovations too.

I collect mobile devices because I like how mobile devices have evolved to be more useful and also enjoy analyzing how designs evolve and/or diverge. If I wake up one day and find that the entire market ends up being iPhone and WinMo7 knockoffs, that'd just be sad. It'd be like waking up to Zynga putting all other game companies out of business.

 

[zeromeus]

Can someone please explain to me what motivation some of the posters on here have to defending Samsung so vigorously?

It is almost as if some of them have something to gain or lose from this trial or the effort of defending Samsung in this forum.

They are Samsung stock holders!

----------

I would argue that Samsung's phones <> crap. But what would be the point as it's a matter of opinion. I, personally wouldn't equate one of their phones to some aftermarket/generic knock off. That's a little "much" for me

My point is that generic/aftermarket knock offs are simply a really crappy copy of the original... i.e. Samsung phones are crappy knockoffs of the iPhone.

 

[JAT]

Hyundai. Man, those guys are shameless sometimes. At least they pull from a variety of sources.

I'm just glad they managed to copy the quality and reliability. Pretty well.

 

[alexgowers]

I wish every company just used their common sense and made products that worked well. Apple can do it why couldn't samsung before apple showed how it was supposed to be done.

Samsung could have done it all without copying anything and come up with a original design for all areas that were no worse than apples solutions.

If they are copying to this level it doesn't look good for samsung on the patent issues as they seem to poorly disguise their design choices.

Apple is also a copy cat but instead of a copy verbatim they actually too the good bits and solved the issues leaving the rest behind, that is how you make new products.

I have a samsung smart TV and I can honestly say if the level of unfinished features on that is anything to go by they wouldn't have been anywhere without apples leading voice in mobile UI design.

I could make a better Smart TV with my eyes closed, they are morons at samsung really poor.

 

[RWinOR]

You only need to come up with ONE WAY of making a button bigger without increasing the size, and I'll say in BIG letters I'm wrong.

Until then - the OP's example excerpt is an OBVIOUS decision and not ripping off anyone.

Everything is OBVIOUS after someone else does it. Samsung never thought of it by themselves until after they did the comparison and decided what was obvious.

 

[LagunaSol]

Can someone please explain to me what motivation some of the posters on here have to defending Samsung so vigorously?

Good question. Like the motivation of some to defend Microsoft so vigorously. Or the motivation of some to defend Google so vigorously. And with an exclusively anti-Apple viewpoint (we all know the forum members we're talking about). Opinions are great - and everyone has one. But if you disagree with everything Apple does, why are you on a Mac user forum???

Payola? Jealousy? Boredom with their own tech choices? Or just the natural desire to harass people? Who knows.

Can someone please explain to me what motivation some of the posters on here have to defend Apple so vigorously.

This is an Apple-centric website/forum. One could call it a "fan site."

See how that works?

 

[chiefpavvy]

This should surprise no one. Jobs was right - Android is a stolen product. And it's no surprise the biggest Android vendor is caught red handed looking to copy iPhone at every turn. They got away with the OS what's a few design cues?

 

[LagunaSol]

I own a Galaxy Infuse and have owned many Galaxy phones. The only iPhone that I've ever had was the iP4, which I sold rather quickly.

I would be an idiot to claim that Samsung didn't flat-out copy the iPhone.

Hear hear. I have a knockoff Arco Lamp. Why? Because I don't have $2300 for a floor lamp. Is it a cheap knockoff? Yes. Is it a shameless ripoff? Yes. Can I admit it? Yep, I just did.

Why can't people be honest enough to admit that Samsung is the mobile phone equivalent? It's mind-boggling that people are actually defending (vigorously) Samsung for their blatant rip-offery. To support Samsung's philosophy is simply bad for the industry.

 

[samcraig]

I'll bite.

If Samsung wins, it encourages other Android manufacturers to also aggressively copy Apple's UI. This is problematic for two reasons:
1) as a customer, I get a choice of iPhone, Windows Mobile 7, or a bunch of crappy iOS knockoffs. What's the point of choice when most of it is crap?
2) if Apple can't defend its uniqueness, what motivation does it have of innovating when they're pretty sure anything good they do will get copied? Less motivation to innovate hurts us all, especially when it's a company that has a track record of bringing out polished cutting edge designs.

If Apple wins, it encourages other Android manufacturers to do something different. This is beneficial because:
1) More actual variety equals more choice.
2) More variety also leads to more inspiration, which increases the likelihood of even more interesting designs from the industry as a whole.
3) An Apple win doesn't simply mean Apple gets to defend its innovations. It means any company who brings something new and unique to the market has a better shot at defending their innovations too.

I collect mobile devices because I like how mobile devices have evolved to be more useful and also enjoy analyzing how designs evolve and/or diverge. If I wake up one day and find that the entire market ends up being iPhone and WinMo7 knockoffs, that'd just be sad. It'd be like waking up to Zynga putting all other game companies out of business.

I would argue that this lawsuit really won't hurt or help either party nor cause any of the items you discussed. It will just mean Samsung (if they lose) has to do more work arounds to make their skin/phones less iPhoney. Pun not originally intended.

They are Samsung stock holders!

----------



My point is that generic/aftermarket knock offs are simply a really crappy copy of the original... i.e. Samsung phones are crappy knockoffs of the iPhone.

I can argue that point - but it's subjective. I don't find my Skyrocket crappy as its own phone or compared to my iPhone 4 which I also have.

Good question. Like the motivation of some to defend Microsoft so vigorously. Or the motivation of some to defend Google so vigorously. And with an exclusively anti-Apple viewpoint (we all know the forum members we're talking about). Opinions are great - and everyone has one. But if you disagree with everything Apple does, why are you on a Mac user forum???

Payola? Jealousy? Boredom with their own tech choices? Or just the natural desire to harass people? Who knows.



This is an Apple-centric website/forum. One could call it a "fan site."

See how that works?

I'm sure you'd like to believe that. In its entirety. I can't speak for others - only myself. I'm here because I have a lot of Apple tech and gadgets. That's 2 MBP, 2 iMacs, an iPad, and iPhone 4, and 2 Apple TVs. This forum isn't just about the iPhone - which is why I am totally comfortable being a member here and discussing news related to Apple. At the same time - I don't believe Apple nor its products are flawless. I also think there's a lot of garbage that gets perpetuated by some forum members here which is not based on any facts but bad information. The fact that I choose to debate the issue or correct these fallacies isn't an indication I am a "fandroid" or anti-Apple. No matter how many times you or someone else posts it. It doesn't make it true. The fact that you have such a hard time understanding what I've posted above (which is now at least the third time I've explained it) only furthers my perception that you have reading comprehension issues or are yourself, blinded by your own enthusiastic view of Apple and anyone who "thinks differently" then you.

As for your final assertion. That's your perception. This is a forum not only about Apple but news that is of interest about the industry in total. No matter how much you'd like it to be - it's not a fan site or fan forum. It's a news and information site and forum. The sooner you realize and accept that not everyone is going to share your opinion, the happier you might be.

 

[DeckardCain]

I went through the first 20 pages of the PDF. It was all trivial. I went another ten pages. There was still nothing of any interest.

Quite honestly, this means nothing. Samsung is looking at how competitors do things and finding ways to apply it to their own devices in the most effective way possible. Just about everything in the document was of such little importance that I'm sure that Apple wouldn't even care if Samsung just straight up copied them.

Samsung noticed that Apple's calculator rotates both left and right, while theirs only rotates left, and decides to fix it.

"HOLY JESUS SAMSUNG IS COPYING APPLE'S CALCULATOR."

 

[KnightWRX]

I'll bite.

If Samsung wins, it encourages other Android manufacturers to also aggressively copy Apple's UI.

Oh please. They aren't now and Apple is already losing quite a few of its claims in many jurisdictions. In fact, even Samsung is doing some pretty innovative things in tablets with the 10.1 Note (gotta admit, side by side app + note taking in that video is amazing. If they pull it off as a shipping product, kudos, I still won't buy an Android tablet, but they've got my attention).

Android doesn't need Apple's UI. Never did. Andy Rubin and Google have a pretty clear goal for the Android UI and its not the same as Apple's and the one used for iOS.

As for people questionning why I "defend Samsung", learn to read. I don't. I try to correct FUD posted here by trying to find the facts behind the statements. I link to court documents, find patent documentation, emphasize important quotes in context rather than out of context.

If that is defending Samsung, it's only because the people that post the FUD do it in a way that protects Apple through a web of deceit and lies. If the opposing camp were to suddenly try the same against Apple (see my argument with appolloa in the iCloud thread), I would do the same, except I would sound like a complete Apple fanboy to whoever I was arguing with.

The problem is people want to polarize me. They want to make me either white or black when really I hold no banner in this fight, neither Apple's nor Samsung's nor Google's.

----------

Just about everything in the document was of such little importance that I'm sure that Apple wouldn't even care if Samsung just straight up copied them.

And Apple is not going to use this document to "prove" any "copying" by Samsung, that is not what their intention is for this evidence. They wanted to use it to ascertain that Samsung did in fact look at the iPhone's design while coming up with their own UI and images, in order to establish a "design ethos". IE, they want to use this document to say Samsung does not do "trial and error", they wait for others to make mistakes and then learn from those by looking at competing products, and in this case, the iPhone specifically.

 

[Geckotek]

Can someone please explain to me what motivation some of the posters on here have to defending Samsung so vigorously?

It is almost as if some of them have something to gain or lose from this trial or the effort of defending Samsung in this forum.

Because some of us are truly objective and while we may see some "moral" issues, we don't agree that there are actual legal issues. (to be clear, I agree with certain aspects of Apple's complaints, but not most of it).

 

[euphlyusUNO]

Can someone please explain to me what motivation some of the posters on here have to defend Apple so vigorously.

It is almost as if some of them have something to gain or lose from this trial or the effort of defending Apple in this forum

See how that works?

And please don't confuse defending with clarifying facts and/or debunking myth.



Well honestly - I predict that whatever changes will be made will be as minimal as Samsung can get away with and adhere to whatever guidelines the suit brings forth.

ETA: I don't completely agree with your assertion about choice. If only because if you want to say the OSes are identical or very very close (which I think is a stretch) - you still have various form factors and other specs which still offer choice. Not perceived choice - but choice.

So you use that phrase against everyone? Is that like your Weapon X?

 

[pure3d2]

So friggin what!!

Samsung solves a problem that the button is too small by making it bigger?

Is that really some sort of amazing design copied off Apple ?

NO.

It is just common sense ?

Unless someone else here could come up with another way you can make a button bigger - that doesn't involve increasing the size ?

It's obviously not common because they didn't think of it. They looked at the iPhone and then realized that their design was inferior.

 

[Peace]

Oh please. They aren't now and Apple is already losing quite a few of its claims in many jurisdictions. In fact, even Samsung is doing some pretty innovative things in tablets with the 10.1 Note (gotta admit, side by side app + note taking in that video is amazing. If they pull it off as a shipping product, kudos, I still won't buy an Android tablet, but they've got my attention).

Android doesn't need Apple's UI. Never did. Andy Rubin and Google have a pretty clear goal for the Android UI and its not the same as Apple's and the one used for iOS.

As for people questionning why I "defend Samsung", learn to read. I don't. I try to correct FUD posted here by trying to find the facts behind the statements. I link to court documents, find patent documentation, emphasize important quotes in context rather than out of context.

If that is defending Samsung, it's only because the people that post the FUD do it in a way that protects Apple through a web of deceit and lies. If the opposing camp were to suddenly try the same against Apple (see my argument with appolloa in the iCloud thread), I would do the same, except I would sound like a complete Apple fanboy to whoever I was arguing with.

The problem is people want to polarize me. They want to make me either white or black when really I hold no banner in this fight, neither Apple's nor Samsung's nor Google's.

----------



And Apple is not going to use this document to "prove" any "copying" by Samsung, that is not what their intention is for this evidence. They wanted to use it to ascertain that Samsung did in fact look at the iPhone's design while coming up with their own UI and images, in order to establish a "design ethos". IE, they want to use this document to say Samsung does not do "trial and error", they wait for others to make mistakes and then learn from those by looking at competing products, and in this case, the iPhone specifically.

Andy Rubin and Eric Schmidt. Where have I heard those names before.

As for their clear goal ?

50% of TV audiences couldn't tell the difference between the iPad and the galaxy tab.


http://www.appleinsider.com/article...stook_samsung_galaxy_tab_for_ipad_in_ads.html

 

[DeckardCain]

It's obviously not common because they didn't think of it. They looked at the iPhone and then realized that their design was inferior.

Humanity will never see the day that common sense is common because people have other ideas on their mind. Just because they didn't hit it the first time around doesn't mean it's not an obvious improvement. Come back after you've actually seen the document.

----------

Andy Rubin and Eric Schmidt. Where have I heard those names before.

As for their clear goal ?

50% of TV audiences couldn't tell the difference between the iPad and the galaxy tab.


http://www.appleinsider.com/article...stook_samsung_galaxy_tab_for_ipad_in_ads.html

I assure you most of the audience was unaware and generally couldn't be bothered to tell the difference.

The Galaxy Tab looked very close to the iPad, but we're talking about people who don't care about the subject either way.

 

[Virinprew]

I predict this thread will hit 999 comments.
Anyway, if this one is real, Samsung will need to double down its secrecy.