San Ramon high school students ban national anthem from rallies

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by lazard, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. lazard macrumors 68000

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    #1
    Students at California High School in San Ramon decided at a recent pep rally that the national anthem will no longer be played, bucking tradition and drawing the school into a national controversy about what and whom the anthem represents.

    At the start of a winter pep rally Jan. 19, the anthem wasn’t performed. No announcement was made and the rally started with competitions between different grades, organized cheers and other activities intended to pump up students.

    Dennis Fiorentinos, 18, a senior at California High, was one of a handful of people who noticed.

    “They’ve always played the national anthem, so I thought maybe they just forgot, but then I realized there’s no way they just forgot the national anthem,” Fiorentinos told The Chronicle.

    He inquired about the anthem’s absence and learned that the Associated Student Body and other student leaders had decided to remove it from the rally — something Fiorentinos views as an overreach.

    On Feb. 9, Ariyana Kermanizadeh, president of the Associated Student Body, wrote a letter to The Californian, explaining that that the decision was motivated by concerns about the racial insensitivity of the anthem.

    “A few weeks before the rally it was brought to our attention that the National Anthem’s third verse is outdated and racially insensitive,” Kermanizadeh wrote.

    She referred specifically to a verse which is no longer performed: “No refuge could save the hireling and slave/ From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave/ And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave.”

    Kermanizadeh said in her letter that the student government is seeking to create an inclusive environment, regardless of tradition.

    “I have said this before and I will say this again, that ASB stands for Associated Student Body, that means for all,” she wrote. “After learning about the third verse, the other ASB officers and I thought that this was completely unacceptable and must be removed from the rally.”

    Fiorentinos said he respects the decision, even if he disagrees with it.

    “I feel the unifying message that the national anthem gives off is important and that it’s important to respect our veterans who died and served protecting our freedoms,” Fiorentinos said. “Like the freedom to choose not play the anthem, it’s those freedoms that we owe much to men and women who died protecting them.”

    Protests of the national anthem have spread across the country after former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick took a knee last year to protest police brutality. Other athletes across all sports have performed similar protests since that time, drawing the ire of President Donald Trump, who has argued that these athletes are disrespecting the flag.

    Fiorentinos said that he’s most upset because there was no open process at California High School in decided to ban the anthem from rallies. In the coming days, Fiorentinos said, he would like to see a school-wide discussion that includes students, faculty and school board representatives.

    School administrators referred questions to Elizabeth Graswich, director of communications for the San Ramon Valley Unified School District. Graswich emailed a statement to The Chronicle, emphasizing the students’ autonomy in making decisions on rallies.

    “The students made their decision after learning that the third verse is seen as offensive to some groups,” Graswich wrote. “The ASB is committed to creating a school culture that is welcoming to all students.”

    https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/amp/San-Ramon-high-school-students-ban-national-anthem-12611370.php
     
  2. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    #2
    So...the student body bans the national anthem over lyrics that nobody actually sings anymore? o_O
     
  3. jerwin macrumors 68020

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    #3
    replace

    with
     
  4. Eggtastic macrumors 6502a

    Eggtastic

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    #4
    Christ... this country is going down the pipes.
     
  5. JayMysterio macrumors 6502a

    JayMysterio

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    #5
    Yet this school body that NONE of you seemingly belong to, bothers you with a decision they made for themselves?
     
  6. ericgtr12 macrumors 65816

    ericgtr12

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    #6
    Getting real tired of all these "patriots" trying to force people to worship a flag and song that at this point it time represents hatred, oppression and the worst in our country. If you want to kneel, kneel, if you don't want to sing a song that doesn't represent you, then don't. Conversely, if you want to stand with your hand over your heart, then do so. It's when they demand everyone to do it their way that it's no longer a freedom and it becomes a police state.
     
  7. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

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    #7
    After looking into this, apparently the usage of the words hiring and slave at the time period (and thoughout much of history) were considered insults, not literal slaves as we consider them today. Depending on your interpretation there are two different meanings here.

    Regardless, no one uses anything but the first verse in the national anthem... I’m impressed they actually know there are additional verses as many Americans are oblivious to this.

    I don’t think they should have banned the national anthem. But it’s not up to me I suppose.
     
  8. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #8
    Seems like something that’s entirely up to that one school.
     
  9. acorntoy, Feb 14, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018

    acorntoy macrumors 65816

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    #9
    WOW did not expect to EVER see that name in this forum :eek:

    I graduated just a few years ago from Cal High. Still played the anthem then o_O, San Ramon is extremely liberal. I wouldn't doubt that many of the people there are "ashamed" of the current "situation" the country is in.I was asked more than once by people if my parents were mean to me because I way gay and they were conservative.

    Town very much fits into the "this is us doing the right thing - thats them doing the wrong thing theres nothing in between" mindset. They need to focus less on the anthem and more on the cannabis edibles that 80% of the school is on (and yes, thats a pretty accurate estimate for the classes above sophomore).

    ALSO- This was the very same school district that I got sent to the principal in Middle School for accidentally giggling at a joke somebody made while the anthem played. I guess the times have changed.
     
  10. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    #10
    You’ve never voiced an opinion about something that had no effect on you?

    I suspect you didn’t go there either, so why are you posting here?
     
  11. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #11
    I don't mind the anthem, but I could see why high school kids would ban it. After all, the US government of adults does very little to protect them from mass shootings. The US adult electorate would rather allow high-powered semi-automatic rifles flood the US so that people can entertain themselves with destruction than regulate such guns for the kids' safety.
     
  12. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    #12
    If songs that contain hatred, oppression and “the worst of our country” are the problem here, hopefully these kids are checking their Spotify playlists pretty carefully.
     
  13. JayMysterio macrumors 6502a

    JayMysterio

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    #13
    Because it's fun to point out the constant faux outrage. People complain former presidents are dictators. People complain they are worried about rights. People complain that the country they belong to along with others, is going in the wrong direction when others exercise their rights. People actually complain because a group sought to be a little more considerate about a greater number of people in their student body by NOT doing something. That's all, they are just NOT doing something, hoping to avoid a situation.

    But even avoiding a situation for some, means it must become a situation or reason for concern.

    Nowadays there seems to be no winning, for some who try to do a right thing.

    As stated in the quotation there seemed to be no process that the anthem has to be played, so why not avoid any drama and just NOT have it? After all, I'm guessing why that passage in the anthem isn't used is to... avoid any drama, out of concern that it is considered offensive. If the anthem isn't required to be played, no kneeling which is the right of citizens, no concern about the passage for those who are aware of it, no foul. If it's so important for some to hear, why don't they play it before leaving the house? Why are some getting snacks or using the lavatory while it's being played? Why isn't the accepted way of presenting one's self during the anthem mandatory? Because despite claims to the contrary we didn't have a dictatorship. Although suddenly requiring displays of patriotism for no particular reasons are often seen as the first signs of a dictatorship occurring. THAT could be considered a reason for outrage.

    It suddenly becomes situationally important about a display for some, when they didn't care before. Since the season has past those same people aren't so worried about how private companies wish supposed good tidings to others, so this is the new concern.

    And I post because I'd like to commend the concern & efforts of the student body.

    Just a little less faux outrage if you will. ;)
    --- Post Merged, Feb 15, 2018 ---
    I supposed if you are so concerned for them, you could point out any 'naughty bits' or other areas of concern.

    The problem might be though, that what you consider as songs "that contain hatred, oppression and “the worst of our country”, might be different their's. As long as they don't MAKE you listen to their Spotify playlists, no harm, no foul. Right? ;)
     
  14. BeeGood, Feb 15, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018

    BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    #14
    You’re pointing out “faux outrage”, but I haven’t seen anyone in this thread who seems upset about this.

    I (and it seems others) are saying that it’s a silly reason to drop the entire song. It’s one line that is sung by no one. I can say that and still acknowledge that it is their right to do so and has nothing to do with me.

    You can have a negative opinion of something and not be “outraged” or “angry” or “bothered”.

    Well, I’m not the one trying to ban everything that could even possibly be construed as offensive. Just pointing out that there is most likely some hypocrisy there.

    Yeah...no, I don’t buy into this idea of relativism. Hatred towards others is universally recognizable. Oppression is universally recognizable.

    Everyone should be able to see that slavery is oppression and racism is hatred. Everyone should also be able to see that rapping about pimpin’ ho’s is oppression and calling people the n and b word is hatred.

    I certainly have to listen to it when I’m sitting next to some nitwit with his stereo turned all the way up in traffic.
     
  15. Mousse, Feb 15, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018

    Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #15
    This is a good lesson to the kids. It show them how our Gub'ment works. They vote for those idiots into office who made stupid decisions that made the rest of the student body look like idiots. Next time, be careful whom you vote into office. We adults have learned our lesson for letting he who must not be named represent us.
    The only good thing I have to say about this is that it happened in California. As a Texan, I can have a good belly laugh at their expense.
     
  16. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

    TonyC28

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    #16
    Welcome to PRSI where people discuss opinions. That’s a sarcastic “welcome” by the way. I know you know better.
     
  17. Lloydbm41 Suspended

    Lloydbm41

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    #17
    Don’t care if the anthem is played or not at any sort of gathering. I don’t care if there is a prayer before the beginning of any gathering... or the end of one. It has no bearing on your life one way or another, so not sure why anyone cares enough to make it an issue? Let the kids decide for themselves if they want an anthem played or not.
     
  18. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    #18
    Are we supposed to be upset about this?f

    Because honestly, with all that’s going on in the world, I don’t have the ability to give a damn about a nationalistic ritual.
     
  19. acorntoy, Feb 15, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018

    acorntoy macrumors 65816

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    #19
    The thing about this is I really doubt the majority of kids decided this. A couple of years ago at the school a LOT was changed at the student government level, and it honestly made it much harder for kids to have their voices heard. The schools administration even at one point only wanted to let students vote for people to student government that they had already “approved”.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 15, 2018 ---
    I mostly find it interesting. This was a school district that very recently seemed to care extremely deeply about national respect, pride and the anthem. In 6’th grade everybody had to write a paper on how it felt when Obama got elected for English. I got in trouble for making a noise during the anthem. In High school we had to go through a deep discussion about the flag and what it represents after a kid parked his car with a confederate flag in the schools parking lot (the practice was quickly banned). I’m wondering why they’ve flipped so much so fast.
     
  20. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    #20
    If I cared enough about this kind of tempest in a teapot I’d look into if the school board got shaken up in the last few years. I personally don’t, but given you have a connection with the place I have an inkling that you might find some insight there. Tons of reactionaries have been elected at the local levels in recent years while Democrats (not that they’re much better when it comes to the creeping trend of nationalism and militarism) were singularly focused on national offices. Perhaps they’ve been elected and are trying to show some type of superficial pushback on the trend?
     
  21. acorntoy, Feb 15, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018

    acorntoy macrumors 65816

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    #21

    Eh I honestly try to avoid politics I’m still too young and my opinions still change rapidly while going through new life experiences, I don’t want to say something today that I’m not sure I’ll still have the same stance on in a year. I know -some- people on the board, and they kinda fit into the mindset i posted above. I’m honestly just here because of how shocked I am to see cal high on macrumors :confused::D

    I feel like the fourth wall has been broken or something :eek: all the time I spent here to avoid feeling like I was there, and now it’s been flipped on me.
     
  22. JayMysterio, Feb 15, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018

    JayMysterio macrumors 6502a

    JayMysterio

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    #22
    I'm guessing we see things differently.

    The same way these students seem to view things differently and acted upon that as was their right.

    Another case of seeing things differently is when we have other discussions and differing opinions are expressed and the calls of hysteria are trotted out. There were no all caps & exclamation points postings, but to hear it from others, those people disagreeing need to calm down & stop frothing.

    So you'll pardon my confusion with this instance, when I compare those. Seriously though, for people claiming it's no big deal, but still pointing it out, seems to be a bit of hypocrisy itself.

    At some point when these students were much younger they were probably told over & over about being concerned for others. They weren't told to be concerned about certain others, just everyone. Other people have feelings, views, and etc. The ol' "Do unto others" & "treat others the way you want to be treated" thing. So in keeping with that concern for others these students seemingly did act out of concern for others. Or maybe just to avoid a situation that didn't need to happen. Either way, it was their choice to do so, and they did.

    Which leads to seemingly some asking 'Why'? It doesn't seem like a big thing to them. But those students aren't them, and it seemingly did seem like a big thing to those students. And they acted upon it.

    I myself shrugged at all of this, but noticed your own seemingly flippant response to this and another about the country going down the tubes. By your logic it must have been something to rate your feeling the need to make a post on it. Granted how I perceived it is on me, but then again, that's why I posted my comment the way I did.

    As far as your second point, that goes back to my first point. I saw your comment one way, because that's me. How you see the importance of the national anthem and it's verse is on you. Those students saw it one way and took it upon themselves how to deal with it. It was their right given to them. Your other flippant comment about their Spotify playlists seemed to indicate that perhaps they should put as much concern into their music choices as they did the anthem. My response was maybe they did, and it works for them, as is their right. You may disagree, seemingly assuming it's music dealing with pimps, hos, and various words you don't care for. That's strictly on you.

    If you're in traffic and such music is bothering you, I can suggest raising your windows & increasing the volume. Such is the risk of public areas. I know, I've suffered thru them myself. Some people just aren't considerate of others. :cool: Then again, when you are trying to be considerate of others, that maybe an issue as well.

    I had no idea such an honor was bestowed on me, becoming the 'welcoming' committee. But I thank all of those who voted for me, I didn't request such an honor... but much love. :p

    As the welcoming committee, welcome to the deep end of discussion on Macrumors. Where as TonyC28 mentions, people discuss opinions. If you weren't sure though, that discussion often involves those who DON'T share your opinion and are allowed to say so. Most of us don't do name calling, but you will hear some couch it with 'hysterical' this, 'rabid' that, or more, but we're still civil. Enjoy your stay, get a thick skin, and like me learn a thing or two. ;)

    Welcome!

    And if you know me... You know I love some sarcasm!
    If you don't believe me, here's a hint... Rock Ridge is the town in Blazing Saddles...
     
  23. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

    TonyC28

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    #23
    You’re sarcastic. We get it. You implied that because we don’t attend the school we shouldn’t have an opinion on the matter. You’re better than that. Don’t retreat behind sarcasm.
     
  24. BeeGood macrumors 68000

    BeeGood

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    #24
    What motivated me to make my first post is the exact same thing that motivated you to reply to it. I read something. I had an opinion about it. I typed my opinion. Same as you. That’s what people do on message boards.

    If you found it to be “flippant”, then perhaps you’re the one who has strong feelings surrounding this story.
     
  25. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

    GermanSuplex

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    #25
    Not singing the national anthem is as big a symbol of freedom of speech as anything. Who cares? Sing it on your lawn. Sing it in the store. Whistle it while walking in the park. Find the Whitney Houston version and blast it out of your car. Stand for it during the ballgame, take a knee, get a hot dog or take a piss.

    It’s stupid and meaningless in regards to patriotism unless you’re actually patriotic. And if you’re patriotic, there’s no shortage of ways to express it.
     

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33 February 14, 2018