Sanders, Clinton, spar over her creds as a progressive

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by thewap, Feb 3, 2016.

  1. thewap macrumors demi-god

    thewap

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    #1
  2. myrtlebee macrumors 68000

    myrtlebee

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    #2
    She's whatever she needs to be to win whatever election she happens to be running in.
     
  3. FieldingMellish Suspended

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    #3

    Exactly.

    Here’s Hillary doing her best Negro dialect.

     
  4. nfl46 macrumors 603

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    Aren't they ALL like that? Politics are dirty, and everyone knows it.
     
  5. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    Clinton has never been a progressive, so I don't know why she's bothering with this line. The only thing she's going to do is push away more voters if/when she ends up with the nomination. She's angling for a primary win, but hurting her national chances for when it matters.

    I've got to wonder if this is bad advice from her advisors, or if this brilliant political tactician (no one can claim she's not, it takes some serious effort to engineer a career like this regardless of what you think of her) is just losing touch entirely with Americans.
     
  6. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    Sorry, I think she is a terrible politician. Her entire political career is based on the fact she is Bill Clinton's wife. She earned nothing that wasn't predicated on her being Mrs. Bill Clinton. Without Bill's coattails to grab, she is nothing.

    The fact that a former First Lady, former U.S. Senator, and former Secretary of State is in the political fight of her life against a rumpled old man from Vermont neatly illustrates that she is a terrible politician.
     
  7. thewap thread starter macrumors demi-god

    thewap

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    Interesting article on how the Clintons rose to power and how they funded the Clinton Foundation..
    Clinton was da man, while Hillary used her legal profession to protect him..
    There is a documentary of this on youtube, but here is an article.

    Snow Job:
    http://www.apfn.org/apfn/snowjob1.htm


    arkflow.jpg
     
  8. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #9
    You a BernieBro, bro?
     
  9. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    That depends on what that meaning of politician is... Sry, had to throw that one in there :D
    As far as using power to get more power, the Clintons are great. They are power brokers, true organized crime in action. Bill is (was) smooth as silk. Hillary is awkward as can be. Listen to her speak it's not smooth at all.

    The only part she has down is the voice rise up for applause, listen to the parts where people starts to clap, pay attention to her voice as the claps get hooked and rise.

    She's also pretty good as question dodging.

    The results is that the people that love her, still love her, while others see that she's not forthcoming and very secretive.
     
  10. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    The sad thing is the black audience didn't know they were being mocked. May as well have put on black face and sang "Mammy".
     
  11. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #12
    I'm blown away that black voters would still vote for her or most any Dem. What have the black people ever got from a Dem?
     
  12. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    #13
    Especially after that little stunt. Surprised she didn't start tap dancing.

    I didn't know Obama sounded like he was fresh off the plantation.
    How about brother Malcolm?

    Articulate black people?! Say it ain't so, Hillary.

    Or is dey'z all like dis

    [​IMG]
     
  13. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #14
    She made a number of comments about hispanics. She said "they make our beds". In her mind, hispanics are only good for making beds and serving water. They might as well be pets. It's ironic how racists she really is, she really doesn't see others as equal to her, watch how she interacts with people.
     
  14. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    It's heartening how much things have changed since Reagan cynically tried to make "liberal" sound like a bad word. Now Sanders and Clinton are arguing about how progressive they are. Yay! :) It's about damn time, Democrats!

    Okay -- Hillary's version of the ACA was progressive for the time, but she is a lot closer to Wall Street than Sanders...and it's disingenuous of her to say she doesn't understand why that would hurt her progressive credentials. The claim she made last night that all that money coming her way was not going to affect her view on issues was not believable.

    Ultimately the argument over who's progressive is foolish. They both have different definitions, just as the Republicans have different ideas on what makes someone conservative. Whatever they call themselves, Bernie is to the left of Hillary and by dint of his non-corporate campaign funding, presumably less corruptible. And that's the point he was trying to make.

    Hillary certainly didn't help herself by calling Sanders' doubts about her progressiveness an "artful smear". She actually got loudly booed for that -- a detail missing in the articles I've read this morning.

    When Bernie came right out of the gate (in the introductory remarks) with his standard "Wall Street evil" talk, I thought it was a bad move. It leaves him with little more to expand on, and indeed he does repeat himself a lot, which I've always thought was his weakness.

    But after listening to Hillary go on the offensive for so much of the debate, and seeing Sanders respond in kind only when necessary, and listening to Hillary's clever wordsmithing, I'm convinced that Sanders' repetition and simplicity of message only serves to make him look more genuine than Hillary. Which is one reason I feel that a general election vote for Bernie will be literally a vote for him, as opposed to a vote for Hillary, which will be a vote for the lesser of two evils.
     
  15. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    Hillary: "Senator Sanders is the only person who would characterize me, a woman running to be the first woman president, as exemplifying the establishment,"
    She's using the gender card to suggest she's not establishment? Really? How long has Hillary been in the government? She _IS_ the establishment and everyone sees that. Suggesting that Bernie is the "only person" that thinks that is crazy. She's grabbing at straws.
     
  16. AustinIllini macrumors demi-god

    AustinIllini

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    This is the Democratic party. Of course they milk the gender card. In some ways, Hillary is what activists have been fighting for all this time. She's a viable and likely Presidential nominee.

    And who cares if she's establishment? It's not like the Democrats have had any opportunity to do anything since Obama's first midterms.
     
  17. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    It's pretty clear the voters are done with the establishment. If Hillary goes into the general against anyone that's seen as not being establishment, she'll have a harder time. Hillary's support (esp with the young) is already proven very weak. Young people don't like the "old establishment ways" and that'll be a tough one to overcome just with the gender card.
     
  18. thermodynamic, Feb 5, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2016

    thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #19
    I would expect a republic to not take 8-digit sums of money. For an oligarchy or plutocracy, people might expect that, but a democracy? Or a republic since conservatives remind us constantly that we are not a democracy but a republic?

    Feel free to bash and scapegoat the libbies all you want, but maybe you conservatives can do a little more talking - to make sure the rest of us are properly educated, since I had no idea that a republic was synonymous with oligarchy or plutocracy. And please edify us politely so we're more inclined to side with you. Thank you.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 5, 2016 ---

    And yet it's funny; socialism implies society - so everyone young is voting for Bernie "just because"? There's an irony that all the kiddies that want the freebies are voting socialist "just because" they're rebelling against the establishment that they're ignorant about. Weird. Unless they know how much more is spent in corporate "welfare" and other corporate "freebies"... or bennies, why can't college students have the same < 2% that banks enjoy? Or free write-offs? Or lots of other things?

    Is it really that simplified? I suspect more is going on. Especially if they endured what their own parents have gone through with the current establishment ways and care, which sounds scary but must be an outlandish thought since the blanket statement of "they hate tradition" always makes 100% pure sense and has always existed, even before the time of the 1950s beatniks.

    And, yes, I'll admit I'm wrong if I am. But, yeah, kids are just mindless rebels that spend money to make hypocritical musicians rich. I've overestimated them time and again...
     
  19. AustinIllini macrumors demi-god

    AustinIllini

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    Usually, in politics, when something is described as "done", a general election corrects the fallacy.
     
  20. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    What I learned from this thread ....

    It's okay to throw the black race card at Hilary, but doing that towards anyone else makes us a bunch of liberal PC crybabies. :cool:
     
  21. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    When her back is against the wall, Hillary always goes on a vagina monologue.
     
  22. haxrnick macrumors 6502a

    haxrnick

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    #23
    Here's a start. They play on their fear.

     
  23. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    Lol, you guys, and likers, just admit this is a hypocritical, double standard view, especially you GOP devotees. :D
     
  24. myrtlebee macrumors 68000

    myrtlebee

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    #25
    Sorry, I'm for Bernie. You won't find any hypocrisy here. Bernie does not change for an election's sake.
     

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