Sanders , obviously failed economics

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, Jul 20, 2019.

  1. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #1
    https://www.newsweek.com/sanders-ca...eZDwzQm_V75dHbWXIOzZlppfEDskX43lShlsol3bnfzRM

    OMG, say it ain't so, raising the wages means they have to work less hours to stay employed........... here is your $15 but instead of 8 hours I can only employ you for 5.................
     
  2. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #3
  3. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502a

    Bug-Creator

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    #4
    Just as usual you didn't bother to read past the headline.....

    Staffers worked 60 hours/week on a fixed annual pay which would push it below 15$/hour.

    So the real issue should be why did they work those long hours.
     
  4. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #5
    how about putting Congress members on commission (like so many independent contractors), where you get paid only on results. Also eliminate their health plan, so they deal with the same realities as the rest of us. I can dream.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 20, 2019 ---
    well, because they were staffing a campaign for President. I long for more equitable wages, but you asked a question and I answered...it is what it is.
     
  5. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #6
    if you work 60 hours a week 20 of those hours should be paid as overtime.
    60 *52 weeks = 3120 hours.
    their pay 36k and it was suggested 42k minimum pay.

    so actual pay hours should be 90 (40 regular hours + 20@1.5 = 90 hours.)
    90 hours *52 weeks * $15 = $70200

    so based on hours worked they are getting the short end of the stick any way you slice it.
     
  6. LordVic, Jul 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019

    LordVic macrumors 603

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    #7
    Deficit spending is not as bad as you would try to make it out to be.

    Deficit spending on things that don't have viable economic return? That's a problem

    EG:, Investment in education and roadways have net positives economically, as a society that is higher educated, and more mobile, can produce more. So while the government looks to be spending more than taking in, that deficit spending spurrs further economic growth accross more sectors. if Spending $1 for every KM of roadway results in $10 in economic growth because of better infrastructure, than that deficit spending is good and yields a net positive for the area.

    Deficit spending however on things that do not benefit societal gains on the other hand, do hurt (like military spending tends to be a black hole of money).

    So While there's definitely issues surrounding Sander's campaign pay, claiming he doesn't know economics, while trying to compare government spending to household spending indicates you're the last person who should be criticizing someone else for their lack of economics knowledge
     
  7. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #8
    Yeah. In theory. I live in this world, and there are so many loopholes exploitable to not make what you said a reality.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 20, 2019 ---
    Is economical a word? sorry, early for me...
     
  8. LordVic macrumors 603

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    #9
    adjective
    1. giving good value or service in relation to the amount of money, time, or effort spent.
    however, I used it incorrectly there and that should only be "economic"

    so editted to fix
     
  9. Plutonius, Jul 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019

    Plutonius macrumors 604

    Plutonius

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    #10
    The issue is that the workers choose not understand salary vs hourly.

    The workers were placed on salary instead of hourly. If their wages were converted to an hourly wage, it would come to $15 dollars per hour assuming a 40 hour week.

    Unfortunately for most of us who work on salary, people would usually end up working more than 40 hours per week with unpaid overtime.

    If the workers wanted a guaranteed $15 dollars per hour, they should have remained on hourly pay and rejected any benefits that being on salary brought them.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 20, 2019 ---
    In the US, salaried people are expected to work unpaid overtime.

    20 hours overtime is high but can be typical is some fields.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 20, 2019 ---
    Salaried unpaid overtime is the downside of being salaried.

    This downside is usually offset by benefits.
     
  10. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502a

    Bug-Creator

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    #11
    Yeah, still no real answer on why the worked those long hours (no "just because" is not an answer). Also no info how Sanders makes sure they stay within sensible hours. They seem to have an contract for 6x8->48h putting them at >=15$/h.

    Did he hire more stuff? Did he improve organization?

    "Working longer" in office jobs rarely gets more done, it just increases the number/length of "meetings" (aka coffee breaks) often without the people noticing it themselves.
     
  11. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #12
    I am salary, I am at work right now, you work till the job is done and you need to know what is needed . you learn as you go, I doubt I have ever worked 40 hrs since becoming salary but still I do love my job .
     
  12. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502a

    Bug-Creator

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    #13
    Not just in the US (hence I'll never sign such a contract unless it is for an insane amount).

    Still the fight/error should be over those extra hours, not bout the pay (which seems reasonable).
     
  13. Apple OC macrumors 68040

    Apple OC

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    #14
    When they’re holding meetings about changing the name from manhole covers to maintenance covers... you know they’ve never managed time or money properly.

    Bernie is a complete fraud.
     
  14. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502a

    Bug-Creator

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    #15
    I'm not, I am in the middle of my WE, I work till a job is done and than make sure I get paid for it.:p


    Btw. you posting here while being "at work" proves my point : extra hours != extra work getting done :confused:
     
  15. jerwin macrumors 68020

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    #16
    Isn't that known as Quid pro Quo?
     
  16. LordVic macrumors 603

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    #17
    could argue that's exactly the situation now and only the "richest" get to participate.

    Government workers should never be beholden to the richest donors.
     
  17. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #18
    well possibly. I wasn't implying a this-for that, but more you get paid related to if you do your job well.
     
  18. jerwin macrumors 68020

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    #19
    Who gets to determine if you do your job well?
     
  19. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #20
    I thought I was cynical. Mercenaries are independent contractors though...
    --- Post Merged, Jul 20, 2019 ---
    I'm not rewriting the Constitution here. I'm just positing that there should be some accountability and meritocracy in these matters. How in any way would that be worse than now?
     
  20. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502a

    Bug-Creator

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    #21
    There is.

    Called "election", maybe you should take part in it, and no just going in marking everything in the R-row (or D-row) does not count.
     
  21. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #22
    I honestly didn't think that the Idea of indexing our Elected officials pay with reference to their performance would be so incendiary.
     
  22. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502a

    Bug-Creator

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    #23
    Huh?

    How would you measure their performance? How would you deal with different people having a different opinion of their performance?

    Simple, don't like their performance vote them out next election. Anything else just won't work.
     
  23. LordVic macrumors 603

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    #24
    I would love if there was some accountability for elected politicians. While we have some in the form of general elections, going 4+ years between them (5 in Canada) can mean that a politician once elected could follow 0 promises and nothing can really be done till election time.

    I would love if parties must submit something like 5 main campaign promises to achieve, and if they break one of those major promises, a general election is forced by the house since the elected official(s) disobeyed or failed to live up to their mandate.
     
  24. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #25
    what other job wouldn't be judged by such terms (generalized)?
     

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