Santa Monica Circumcision Ban Proposed As Ballot Initiative (Also a wonderful poll!)

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by appleguy123, May 27, 2011.

?

Are You Circumcised?

  1. Yes

    74 vote(s)
    63.8%
  2. No

    42 vote(s)
    36.2%
  1. appleguy123, May 27, 2011
    Last edited: May 29, 2011

    appleguy123 macrumors 603

    appleguy123

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Location:
    15 minutes in the future
    #1
    Source
    I support this. I was circumcised, and I feel like I should have had the option to choose what happens to my own body.
    What are your thoughts on the bill?
     
  2. 184550 Guest

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    #2
    This is the biggest problem I foresee.

    I couldn't care less about this issue. I remember when I was in DC for a conference in High School there were a bunch of those idiots protesting the issue outside the Capitol. Everyone had a laugh and went on with their day.
     
  3. Repo macrumors 6502a

    Repo

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    #3
    If this passes, there's going to be a lot of pissed off guys (no pun intended) in about 20 years.
     
  4. appleguy123 thread starter macrumors 603

    appleguy123

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Location:
    15 minutes in the future
    #4
    Pissed off that they weren't given a medically unnecessary surgery without their consent? Why would they feel that way? They can go into a hospital and get it done themselves if they'd like it so much.
     
  5. Repo macrumors 6502a

    Repo

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    #5
    It's much more painful to have it done as an adult, and circumcision has many health benefits. It's done in the child's best interest.
     
  6. appleguy123 thread starter macrumors 603

    appleguy123

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Location:
    15 minutes in the future
    #6
    By that do you mean that children won't remember it? I don't see how that makes it more appropriate.
     
  7. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Location:
    Birmingham, AL
    #7
    Such as?
     
  8. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Location:
    Penryn
    #8
    So the child believes that lowered sexual feeling is in his best interests? The "health benefits" you claim are spurious at best and have no backing in western medicine, only in the third world where the "studies" lack the thoroughness that western medicine requires.

    Genital integrity has been granted to females, why shouldn't males also have the same rights?
     
  9. Repo, May 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2011

    Repo macrumors 6502a

    Repo

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    #9
    Their nervous system isn't fully active.
     
  10. 184550, May 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2011

    184550 Guest

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    #10
    Do we really need to rehash this conversation? The last 15 pages weren't enough?

    Technically, this topic should have been posted to that thread given it isn't locked or the such.
     
  11. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2003
    Location:
    Penryn
    #11
    Google Maps tells me that there's a significant distance between San Francisco and Santa Monica. Could you please enlighten me and tell me why the two posts by different people are related?

    Why do you feel that genital integrity is a tedious subject?
     
  12. 184550 Guest

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    #12
    Do foreskins and their uses vary by city/ region in California? :confused:

    It's only tedious when people ask the same questions and get the same answers. ;)

    Nothing new has been contributed thus far (and most likely won't if PRSI history is any indication).
     
  13. swingerofbirch macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Location:
    The Amalgamated States of Central North America
    #13
    Circumcision has been offered as a solution for a myriad of problems throughout the years. I don't know if I believe in God, but I believe the foreskin seems like a very well-thought out part of the body that is supposed to be left on the body!

    I was circumcised the day after I was born and I have always both resented that on that day I was strapped down to a board and mutilated without anesthesia (I have my birth records and contacted the doctor to verify how the procedure was done), and I also regret that every day since then I have not had the benefit of having my foreskin.

    There are lots of facts and myths to debunk, and I agree it is tedious to defend the natural, intact state of the human body against people who have come up with new reasons to mutilate it over thousands of years. You have people who want to allow a child to keep their body intact and people who will clasp to any conceivable reason not to. So, I don't argue those points anymore. To me, it is enough to argue an inherent self truth: I was circumcised—I had part of my body taken away from me and fundamentally damaged and changed—and I do not like that. It's as simple as that. It's my body. I didn't choose circumcision. It should have been my choice. I would have said, DO NOT TOUCH ME. DO NOT COME NEAR ME WITH A CLAMP AND SCALPEL AND SEXUALLY ABUSE ME.

    And I really do get tired of the attitudes in this country about circumcision. I have watched Oprah for a long time and I have seen her promote SkinMedica as one of her favorite things. It's an overly priced, ineffective anti-aging product that uses human fibroblasts taken from infants' foreskins. Any time I have written on her message board about that, it has been deleted. Then I watch her new show on OWN, called Ask Oprah's All Stars. Of course they go for salacious questions and the first one is to Dr. Oz about whether a couple's child should be circumcised or not. Dr. Oz gives terrible, waffling, uninformed advice. Then Gayle King, the host, says several times that a "clipped weenie" looks better. It's hard for me to take Oprah and her shows that deal with sexual abuse seriously when in our society we talk about "clipped weenies" looking better. It actually makes me heartsick.

    I think circumcision is a problem in this country. And I think attitudes toward and about men are a problem in this country.

    Female genital mutilation was outlawed in the United States in 1996 and men deserve equal protection. We have a Department of Women's Health in the United States but not a Department of Men's Health in spite of the fact that women dramatically outlive men. This is not something to joke about. It's not cute when I hear women say they'll only "go down" on a "cut" man. I think about what people would say if they heard a man saying that about a woman. It's crass. It's not cute. These are very serious topics and they involve the right of the individual child—not the rights of cults, religions, parents, etc. Democracy is not built around protecting the rights of those things--it is built around the rights of the individual as long as an individual's rights don't infringe on someone else's. If you're Jewish, I support your right to have yourself circumcised at an age of consent. But no text from thousands of years ago should take away the rights of a child today. It's not anti-semetic. It is for the protecting the dignity--the core human right--of a child.
     
  14. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Location:
    Birmingham, AL
    #14
    Complete and utter BS. My now 13 year old boy was circumcised (against my wishes) when he was an infant. He was in pain for a week.

    As for your so-called health benefits, what Ugg said. Boys will be perfectly fine with an intact foreskin so long as you make sure they keep it properly clean. It's just as ludicrous to argue that for health benefit reasons, all women (and men too) should have their breast tissues removed shortly after birth, as doing so would eradicate breast cancer.
     
  15. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Location:
    The Mergui Archipelago
    #15
    X2

    In my opinion circumcision is accepted for no other reason than culturally. Any attempts to justify it on medical grounds (in western society at least) is full of holes and entirely unconvincing. I hope such bans on genital mutilation of the young who do not and cannot consent continue to propagate. The fact that it needs to be banned in the first place speaks volumes of how perverted society is on the issue.
     
  16. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Location:
    NYC
    #16
    I was kind of angry when I was a little kid that my parents hadn't made me like my friends (circumcised), but I grew to appreciate the benefits. People in high school didn't really question it as I'm 'European' so somehow people reframed their opinion to reflect a different understanding of normal. I do understand how it could be an issue with kids being made fun of, but gang showers have fallen out of popularity anyhow. Being from one of the most heavily circumcised generations in the US I have had the opportunity to introduce most girls I've been with to the 'natural' style. Rave reviews all around, what can I say. I think most women who say they prefer it cut really don't know wha they're missing. The health benefits storyline is basically created to justify the cultural tradition of circumcision, which I think is a shame. No way in hell I'd circumcise any son I may have in the future.
     
  17. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Location:
    On tenterhooks
    #17
    Originally the other way around, I believe, but today, yes. :)

    No need. We can shower regularly now. ;)

    Me Mom was studious, when I was a mere lad, so long ago, in reminding me to "wash myself". :D
     
  18. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #18
    This thread should have a poll so we could see the circumcision rate on macrumors.
     
  19. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #19
    GOOD FOR YOU! I remember the first time I was with a guy who was uncut. At first it was strange, then it was awesome. Now I'm completely jealous.
     
  20. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    #20
    So the only real medical research is done in rich countries? That seems like a position that's spurious at best.

    http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm

    The health benefits are reasonably substantiated. The question is do the benefits outweigh the risks and damage done by circumcision? I'd agree with the CDC that they do not in the U.S. context, and I certainly will not circumcise any son of mine.

     
  21. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #21
    Good luck putting it on a ballot in the US, it will never pass. It's a part of US culture, most guys are cut, and most girls prefer it. Good luck ever banning it.
     
  22. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #22
    Just because something is one way now does not mean it can't change. Circumcision is a terrible practice that denies men the right to make decisions about their own bodies. It needs to be done away with. I will never be happy that part of my body was taken from me without my consent.
     
  23. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #23
    Maybe so. I'm just saying you will never get it banned by putting it on a ballot in a country where most people have no problem with it. Even european countries don't ban it, they just don't practice it if they choose not to. I think banning it goes a step too far. I have no psychological damage from being circumcised and my sex life is just fine and pleasurable thank you very much. Not so much for female circumcision though, which really does do a lot of damage.
     
  24. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Dornbirn (Austria)
    #24
    and if i cut off the penis completely the HIV infection rate drops to nearly 0% ;)

    seriously:
    compared to wearing a condom, circumcision still offers nearly zero protection in regards to HIV
    advertising it as an alternative, like done in some countries, is flat out irresponsible

    edit: european countries don't ban it but the health insurances etc. don't cover the procedure unless it's medically needed ... and because of that only few religous demographics do it
    quite a difference if you have to pay it out of your own pocket
     
  25. InsanelyApple macrumors 6502

    InsanelyApple

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    #25
    Same here. It can't be reversed and I wish it could be. I don't think I'll put my kids through it.
     

Share This Page