Santorum has 3-0 night

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mcrain, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #1
    The economy improves and then Santorum sweeps three irrelevant primaries/caucuses (no delegates). Is it a coincidence that social issues like abortion, gay marriage and religious "freedom" to oppress others are coming to the front? (Oh, and don't forget flag burning at OWS)

    If the economy continues to improve, other than social issues, what are the Republicans going to run on?

    Can they run on the debt? They point to the high deficits, but the numbers don't lie, and not only are things getting better, but the deficits are shrinking (slowly). Plus, as every Republican knows, Obama has no problem reminding people that we had a surplus before the policies the GOP support were enacted by the last Republican.

    Can they run on job creation? The GOP points to Keystone and 10,000 jobs, but those may be temporary jobs, the project makes the GOP look even more oil industry centric, and the Obama administration supports the project. The GOP just demanded instant approval of a different pipe route without allowing the regulatory process to review the NEW route! Yes, a NEW route because the Nebraska governor, a Republican, demanded that the pipeline not go through the sandhills because it was too dangerous to the environment. :eek: I seem to recall the GOP refusing to even allow a vote on the President's job plan, plus they are about to eliminate 35,000 permanent green energy jobs.

    Can they run on the economy? How are they going to handle the Payroll tax holiday? We saw what happened in December. Unemployment is getting better. US manufacturing is improving (yes, the auto industry bailout worked).

    Immigration - Obama has done far more than his predecessor.

    Oil exploration - more domestic exploration than predecessor. Less reliant on foreign oil.

    Romney keeps saying President Obama has made things worse. Do the American people think we are worse or better than at the end of the Bush administration? Do you?

    I think everyone here knows my opinion, but I'm really trying to play this out from the other side. If you were advising John Boehner, Rick Santorum, Gingrich and Romney, what would you tell them to do?

    They can continue to attack the Health Care Reform, however, if the nominee is Romney, that attack might backfire. The sheer size of the debt and deficits are something they have to stress, especially when explaining why not spending would have been worse. What might have happened is a tough sell, so anything the GOP can do to frame that argument has to help them.

    What do you think?

    (edit) 3-0 night... insert Newt joke here.
     
  2. eawmp1 macrumors 601

    eawmp1

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    #2
    There are two Republican parties today. Those who are more libertarian in wanting more fiscal responsibility and LESS government, and those who want MORE government regulation/control of moral issues. There also is a roughly geographic schism in how these two schools of thought are distributed. This is not unlike the Democratic Party issues with the Dixicrats 60 years ago. I can easily see a split in the party (not this election cycle). However, the more socially conservative the Republicans swing, the more they will alienate moderate independents.
     
  3. mcrain thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #3
    I think the problem they seem to be having is that the establishment, Wall St. republicans that have controlled the GOP for decades have promised and paid lip service to the evangelical Christians and other extreme elements of the right, who now actually want someone to actually do what they have been promised. The tea party originally seemed to be a grassroots movement by that crowd until it was subverted by the Karl Roves of the world. John Boehner can't get his caucus to agree on things so basic that they harmed our credit rating.

    It's strange for me to see the GOP so fractured when for years they have voted as a single bloc on everything, even things at least a few of them should have agreed with. It was party politics before everything else, yet now, they are fighting with each other.

    Personally, I'd like to see the GOP take on the role as supporters of fiscally sound policy (not fake trickle down economics, but real legitimate fiscally sound policy). I'd like to see them promote personal responsibility and liberty from governmental intervention. The Democrats and Republicans should be able to reasonably and rationally debate issues like entitlements for the poorest of the poor, the elderly and the ill. Those shouldn't be things we disagree about this much. Same goes for lots of stuff.

    I truly believe a moderate Republican could run away with the election in 2016 and bring about massive change for the GOP. If I were in charge of the GOP, I would hope for a loss this time, and then steal the middle from the left. But, as a Democrat, it's fun to watch them repeatedly choose to do the same things over and over and over, yet expecting different results.
     
  4. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #4
    The fact is, the Republicans just don't like Romney. Can he win anywhere where he doesn't carpet bomb his opponents with ads and PAC money?

    I thought Romney was the only electable Republican running but now, not so much.
     
  5. mcrain thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #5
    I think Romney isn't even the most electable republican from Massachussets. I think Scott Brown has the potential to run away with 2016 (even if he loses his re-election).
     
  6. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #6
    Please let Santorum get the nomination! Easy Obama win!
     
  7. SwiftLives macrumors 65816

    SwiftLives

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    #7
    Personally, I don't want Santorum on my ballot.
     
  8. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #8
    Easy Obama win but also an affirmation of the deeply disturbing path the American right seems to be headed toward.
     
  9. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #9

    Or it might just be what the GOP needs to take back their party from the fringe.
     
  10. SwiftLives macrumors 65816

    SwiftLives

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    #10
    I still think Romney is going to win - mainly because he still holds a lead in many of the states with lots of delegates. Of course, in this election, being in the lead seems to change week to week.

    If Romney wins the nomination, do you think we'll see a third party run by a far-right candidate?

    Or would Romney will pick a far-right running mate? I hate to say it, but I could see a Romney-Santorum ticket.
     
  11. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #11

    That may be but many states now award delegates proportionally, which will hurt Romney as the "front-runner".

    I don't think we'll see a third-party candidate. Would make for great political theater though.

    If he gets nominated, the party will force a VP candidate on him a la McCain. I'd bet it would come from the *******e wing of the party.
     
  12. eawmp1 macrumors 601

    eawmp1

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    #12
    You're holding it wrong.
     
  13. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    I doubt we will see one, but you never know, I wouldn't put it past Ron Paul to try, or maybe if Palin decides she needs more attention I could see her running as an independent if Romney gets the nomination. But I think it's more likely that we will see Romney get the nomination and then choose a far right VP in order to prevent that from happening.
     
  14. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #14
    it they keep this up it could work out no one gets a majority and we end up with a broker convention. If that happen it could be anyone who comes out including people who did not even run in the primary.

    ----------

    I think the *******e wing is going to have get a VP candidate no matter what. I would not be surprised in the least that the VP will be from the Tea Party, no matter who wins in the end.
     
  15. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #15
    So its settled then: Vote Santorum/Bachmann 2012.
     
  16. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #17
    One thing I've been wondering...

    Almost every news article I read regarding politics is swarmed with far-right comments screaming about Obama's policies, destroying America, and all that. Any more centered or left comments are lost in the soup of rightness.

    But this doesn't seem to be what I see or hear out in the real world. Is it just that the far-right people are that much more vocal online than others (except for MR, obviously! :D )
     
  17. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #18
    People love hiding behind the anonymity of the internet.

    I always got a kick out of reading the comments section on a local TV station's website. It used to be you registered an account, you could pick your username and remain completely anonymous much like these forums. The comments thread on any news article used to instantly devolve into "Obama is a Kenyan Muslim Marxist n-word and is destroying this country almost as fast as the evil gays!" Even a feel good article about a cute puppy being abandoned and adopted into a good home would eventually be turned into an Obama/Liberal/Gay hatefest.

    One day, they switched their commenting system to use Facebook. Now there's a real name and face attached to every comment. You get a few racist bigots commenting every now and then, but for the most part, the comments are relatively sane.

    So my theory is that while plenty of people are racist bigots, they only act that way when they're anonymous. That's why they're not like that in public or when their real name is attached to a comment they make online. They know they're hateful and wrong, that's why they choose to hide.
     
  18. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #19
    I actually find it somewhat reassuring how hard a time the right is having settling on any one of these clowns. Sane people should have a hard time picking among them, and the GOP is having a harder time coming up with a viable candidate than the Democrats did when they ended up with Mondale in 1984 (and look how that worked out).

    Remember that this gaggle of unappealing asshats is all they've got to choose from, so one of them is going to come out on top in every one of these races, but I don't see much indication that much of anybody really likes any of them. They're just playing the odds on who they think has the best chance to challenge Obama, and reacting to headline-manipulating strategies: Santorum no doubt sacrificed other fronts to focus his efforts on pulling off this trifecta, but it's still only three states.
     
  19. mcrain thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #20
    Analysis I just heard on POTUS was centered on what Romney can campaign on if the economy keeps improving. They seem to think that because Romney can't seem to win over the right-wing, Christian, or social conservatives, he will need to start shifting to the right and start trying to shift the conversation to other policy issues. If the reason a lot of the moderates/independents have for voting for him goes away, he will have to find other issues to attract them. If he can't, they will vote for a "more conservative alternative" or Obama.
     
  20. Thomas Veil, Feb 8, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012

    Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #21
    You could wear gloves so you don't get any on you.
     
  21. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #22
    This is in direct contrast to the 2008 elections, where Obama and Clinton both had strong support, and yet in the end Clinton's supporters overwhelmingly voted for Obama in the general election. I think most voters in those primaries felt both candidates were strong, so it was easy to rally behind the winner.

    In the current situation, most Santorum supporters think Romney will make a bad president, and vice versa, so the only motivation to support their opponent in the general election will be to get any Republican in the Whitehouse. That will draw votes, to be sure, but it is unlikely to result in the level of support Obama enjoyed from erstwhile Clinton supporters in 2008.
     
  22. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #23
    Romney should be very, very worried.


    60.1: Percent of the Colorado caucus vote Romney received in 2008.
    40.2: Percent of the Colorado caucus vote Romney received in 2012.
    42,214: Votes Romney received in the 2008 Colorado caucus.
    26,372: Votes Romney received in Colorado in 2012.


    41.4: Percent Romney received in the 2008 Minnesota caucus.
    16.9: Percent (with 95.2 percent of precincts reporting) Romney received in the 2012 Minnesota caucus.
    25,990: Votes Romney received in the 2008 Minnesota caucus.
    8,096: Votes (with 95.2 percent of the precincts reporting) Romney received in the 2012 Minnesota caucus.


    29.3: Percent of the vote Romney received in the 2008 Missouri primary.
    25.3: Percent Romney received in the 2012 Missouri primary.
    172,329:
    Votes Romney received in the 2008 Missouri primary.
    63,826: Votes Romney received in the 2012 Missouri primary.


    Source
     
  23. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

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    #24
    You would still end up with a spoiled ballot or is that soiled ballot?
     
  24. malman89 macrumors 68000

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    #25
    Well, everyone (both sides) are more than aware that Mr. Romney can alter his views based on needs or desire for personal gain.

    Not really. He had no chance in Minnesota and Missouri's results aren't tied to anything but perception. The only loss that really 'hurt' was Colorado. It was expected to go for smitty Mitty.
     

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