Saudi Arabia Arrests 11 Princes, Including Billionaire Alwaleed bin Talal

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by MacNut, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #1
    Things are getting interesting in Saudi Arabia.
    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/...ia-waleed-bin-talal.html?smid=tw-bna&referer=
     
  2. Zenithal macrumors G3

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    #2
    Two guys on that list own major stakes in News Corp and other large companies. One of them, I believe, owns enough controlling shares to make this big news and not some power play. This is the problem when your family and extended family run the country through official positions.
     
  3. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 604

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  4. bradl macrumors 68040

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    #4
    I must be the only one who read this as "11 princes including Prince Altheweed bin Talal"..

    If that were his name, Snoop Dogg, Sublime, and anyone who went to see a Rush laser light show would be screaming for war. :p

    BL.
     
  5. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #5
    It's one thing to announce the arrest of somebody. It's another thing entirely to arrest a bunch of people without actually specifying what the charges against them are. Which the Saudis, true to their reputation as a nation totally devoid of anything resembling the rule of actual law, managed to avoid doing.

    Curious thing: From the OP's link

    Donald Trump might not be able to pull the strings of justice here in the United States. But somehow I have a sneaking suspicion Prince Alwaleed finds himself locked up (albeit in relatively cushy surroundings) in no small part thanks to his spat with Trump.
     
  6. bradl macrumors 68040

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    #6
    True with all of that. My point here is that I did a double take on the entire thread because I read his name as "All the weed" instead of Alwaleed. :D

    BL.
     
  7. Zenithal, Nov 4, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017

    Zenithal macrumors G3

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    #7
    Nah, the guy arrested was corrupt. Arrested on the orders by a corrupt individual. It's a power play. Trump may be POTUS, but it's really the defense industry who gets to decide who they'll sell to and their voice is more important than other industries. Especially when congress has thousands of constituents who are employed by these defense companies. The approval process by congress and the WH is more for show than actual substance. That's the reality of it. I witnessed it first hand when I worked for Sam under the Clinton Administration.

    A lot of the so-called aid money we, including myself, oversaw after the Soviet block dissolved in the early 90s lead to the eventual purchase of US goods using aid money. Goods being an umbrella term for whatever was needed. Money hardly went to the people, so to speak. These countries fed off the teet for US and Soviet era weapons and non-military equipment en masse.

    This was the late 90s, and it was mind blowing to see it all unfold, albeit not at the breakneck speed I'm explaining to you now. You would see people on the street maybe living off of $20 US a month in Soviet era apartments and barely being able to put food on the table and make rent. When the Union fell, everything came crashing down and most suffered. Those who were able to buy up previously state-owned goods and services companies did well and are doing well now.


    Point of this post is that we'll see something similar happen in the KSA in 30-40 years, provided most of us are alive by then. Saudi Royals are only powerful because of the money and the iron laws they force their subjects to follow. With money comes power. They, the KSA, may be investing heavily in green tech, but the monetary income then won't be like what it is now. Of course, we could always botch their economy from the outside if we wanted to.


    KSA and India are our biggest arms purchasers.
     
  8. Scepticalscribe, Nov 5, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017

    Scepticalscribe macrumors Westmere

    Scepticalscribe

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    #8
    This is the Crown Prince consolidating his position and removing potential rivals and sources of opposition.

    And it is nothing new. This is because ever since the current Crown Prince was appointed to his position this past summer, he has been removing, arresting, sidelining, retiring, or firing anyone who might serve to challenge his position, authority, vision for the future and power.

    This includes other princes, ministers, mullahs, theologians, the media, and any other possible source of dissent.
     
  9. Solomani macrumors 68040

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  10. juanm macrumors 68000

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    #10
    Yes. Bad news, with a serving of good PR to make it look nice overseas (allowing women to drive).
     
  11. Zenithal macrumors G3

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  12. rdowns macrumors Penryn

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    #12
    Wasn't Golden Boy Jared just there looking for money to bail out his 5th Avenue nightmare?
     
  13. Mousse, Nov 7, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017

    Mousse macrumors 68000

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    #13
    That's my take as well. Since the supposed "anti-corruption committee" he heads has pretty much unlimited powers.

    No proof need, all that's necessary is the committee's say so. Reminds me of how Stalin worked his magic.

    Edit: The King should have all the princes duke it out Hunger Game style for the crown. They can even license the trademark "Royal Rumble" from the WWE and the slogan "There can be only one" from the Highlander franchise. They got the money.:p
     
  14. SoggyCheese Suspended

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    #14
    Amazingly all this, plus increasing tensions with Iran, seem to be pushing the oil price up.

    Saudi Arabia needs oil to be at $65/barrel to halt its increasing lurch towards bankruptcy. $57 and rising will be helping to delay that inevitable reckoning I would have thought.
     
  15. Scepticalscribe, Nov 7, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017

    Scepticalscribe macrumors Westmere

    Scepticalscribe

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    #15
    Yes, indeed, increased tensions with Iran.

    Bear in mind, that, earlier this week, in Riyadh, (not, note, Beirut), the Lebanese Prime Minister announced his resignation. Now, while he did mention that he did not care to suffer the same fate as his father (who had been an assassinated PM of Lebanon) some unkind souls suggested that the timing and the location - Riyadh, to emphasise this point - were rather unusual locations from which to announce one's resignation to one's own people/electorate.

    Anyway, this recent 'purge' - the dismissed are under house arrest (for now) in a five star hotel from which all other guests were requested to leave at very short notice - alternative accommodation was found for them; anyway, this is the third such 'purge' (accompanied - on the other hand - by a reinterpretation of some rules, women driving, women allowed to travel abroad without obtaining the consent of a male guardian, women permitted to enter football stadia to attend concerts); the first was in June when the Crown Prince ousted his predecessor as Crown Prince.

    That deposed Crown Prince has been under house arrest ever since; an aside: His son - that is, the son of the deposed Crown Prince - a deputy governor of a province - died in a helicopter crash yesterday. Some say he was trying to flee the country. Others remarked that helicopters sometimes crash, leading to fatalities.

    The second 'purge' occurred in September: In mid September, a number of theological leaders - and mullahs - some with millions of followers on Twitter - were detained and arrested.

    Then, there were these arrests, including 11 princes, several ministers and former ministers, and the arrest of the country's richest man. (Is anyone reminded of the arrest - in his private jet - of Mikhail Khodorkovsky?) These arrests send the signal that nobody is immune from the 'new broom'.

    Other points to note: The Yemen war is - frankly - unwinnable.

    And, the Qatar crisis has not ended in victory for the Saudi (and UAE) led coalition.

    Also worth noting is the the current Crown Prince has been contemplating floating some of Aramco (the state owned - and unusually opaque - oil company) on the Stock Exchange (not sure whether NY or London were what he had in mind).
     
  16. SoggyCheese Suspended

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    #16
    The Lebanese PM was always bought and paid for by the Saudis as a way of keeping the Iranian funded Lebanese Hezbollah in check. TBH I wasn't surprised he announced his resignation during a visit to "head office".

    The rest of it is pretty scary though. Reminiscent of recent events in both Turkey and Russia.
     
  17. Solomani, Nov 7, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017

    Solomani macrumors 68040

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    #17
    I trust the House of Saud even less than Iran's Islamic Republic.

    At least, Iran's Islamic Republic is very straightforward in their motives. They make their intentions known. If they are building up ballistic missiles, it's because they make it clear that they need a defense against US warhawks that dream of bombing Iran any day now.

    And Iran is more consistent in its morals and ethics. Iranian leaders and supreme clerics live quite modestly, they don't cavort in multi-billion dollar palaces and there are no spoiled princes that drive Ferraris and Porsches. They basically practice what they preach. In Saudi Arabia, the nasty clerics preach violent jihad and the numerous royal Princes cavort with Las Vegas prostitutes while they gamble and drink alcohol (something they preach against in their version of Islam) while the entire government and clerical leadership preaches an oppressive theocracy.

    Saudi is only now considering allowing females to drive. Meanwhile in Iran, women have been legally driving cars, legally owning business, have university degrees allowing them to practice as hospital doctors, and have been serving as Parliamentary Ministers (MPs) since the founding of their Islamic Republic.
     
  18. sorcery macrumors regular

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    #18
    Couldn't agree more.
    Saudi is saber rattling against both Iran and Hezbollah, neither of which they could defeat without US/Israel doing the job for them. And I'm not sure Israel is up to the task.
    Meanwhile at home, the crown prince has backed himself into a corner. Either he executes his prisoners or he faces a civil war, in the near future.
    Oil at $1000 a barrel, anyone? Must call my broker...
     
  19. MacNut thread starter macrumors Core

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    #19
    I could see that really starting WWIII, if oil spikes above $200 things get interesting world wide. That would be a fight we don't want. North Korea would be child's play vs a total middle east collapse.
     
  20. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

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    #20
    Looks like some good, old fashioned, mafia-style house cleaning.
     
  21. thekev macrumors 604

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    #21
    I'm not sure if it's as bad as Saudi Arabia, but according to literally every person I've known from Iran (probably half were from the capital) the Iranian government has a pretty high degree of corruption. It just lacks a portion of the backwards social standards. They also have their own version of Trump, who is arguably only slightly more of a jackass.
     
  22. stylinexpat, Nov 12, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017

    stylinexpat macrumors 65816

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    #22
    Makes you wonder what Kushner has in all this behind the scenes. Since he got back oil has been rising. People have been arrested and Abbas was summoned from Palestine to resign if he does not accept the next peace that agreement. Basically he was threatened to face consequences if he does not go along with their plans and agreements.

    All those arrests in saudi could backfire big time on Prince Salman. He has made many enemies recently in Saudi and abroad.
     
  23. stylinexpat macrumors 65816

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    #23
  24. LizKat macrumors 601

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    #24
    Along with collection of tribute money to get them sprung from house arrest... when running short of cash, just grab up the top ten or 20 guys you know have been stiffing you, turn upside down, shake until hear money falling out of offshore accounts.

    All those American bucks falling off the back of the bank truck on the way to buy petrol had to go somewhere, as did all those rials falling off the back of the bank truck headed to pay US companies for planes and weaponry, oil field expertise and so forth. It takes two to tango, and the Americans and Saudis have been engaged in mutual backscratching, winking and nodding for nearly a hundred years now.

    As Prince Bandar noted in an interview on NPR once when asked about an estimated $50 billion that may have vanished from bookkeepings during some long running contractual arrangement with the USA, "So what? We did not invent corruption."

    Gotta love MbS though for styling his gig as a cleanup and then accepting big-dollar assets from his chosen "corrupt" targets in order for them to regain their freedom. His spin on that was that he had asked those guys to invest in his turnaround plans for Saudi Arabia but when they failed to help underwrite his plans with monies they'd meanwhile stashed offshore, it was clear they were selfish and corrupt so... plan B ensued...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/14/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-mohammed-bin-salman.html
     
  25. stylinexpat macrumors 65816

    stylinexpat

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    #25
    Money for new projects has to come from some where lol.. Getting it from say 10 or the top 10 richest will help with their new projects lol. Salman would probably have seen it as a good cause then as he would use the money to do something good for the country. Theft with a good reason. He has learned from one of his neighbors in the Middle East
     

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