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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by nbs2, Feb 26, 2008.
Because Chavez and his Venezuela are a beacon to the Western Hemisphere.
Gugh, sounds like the stupid crap they do in Quebec to try to preserve their language. All business signs there have to be in French. Even their stop signs say 'Arrêt' even though everywhere else in the world stop signs say 'Stop'. Whenever any government lets their dislike for another language or culture dictate the laws they pass they're just pushing their own country and culture backward.
Considering there's now 40m Spanish speakers in the US, with hundreds of millions of others across the American continent I really can't see the point of this. But it's very typical of Chavez whilst being harmless and therefore I find it quite funny.
I don't get it?
If Venezuela wants to promote Spanish over English or any other language then what's wrong with that?
(It even happens here in Wales with the Welsh language. It annoys the bejesus out of me simply because it's a massive waste of the limited money that the Welsh Assembly gets from London.)
Then there's France...
I hope you all consider the idiots in the US who are pushing for a "national" language to be equally as stupid.
Like this sort of thing, you mean?
I don't have much comment on the main point, but this is simply not true. Stop signs in Spanish-speaking countries say "ALTO" and in Russia they say "CTO(Pi)." Where would you get the idea that stop signs are not localized, and why wouldn't you expect that to be the case?
Based on that, I'd have to say that nbs2 is pretty darned hypocritical.
Shouldn't Venezuelans be speaking Aymara or something? I mean, speaking in Spanish is just replacing one imperialism with another.
On a Mac, to make the Pi symbol, do Alt+P: π or MAYUS+Alt+P: ∏
Perhaps secretly he wants Señor Rey to tell him to te callas again
What about on an iPod touch?
I don't care that Chavez does this. I just figure what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Maybe both are unnecessarily hostile and rude, maybe not. What do you think, Lau?
If you don't care, why write the post? It seems like you would support Chavez's decision, based on your support for the Geno's owner.
What was the point of this thread, after all?
My point in that thread (that may or may not have come across clearly) was that I wouldn't say the owner should be banned from showing such a sign it's his shop after all. But it seemed hostile to me if you understand someone, why not speak to them in their language wherever you are? I've been helped out in various countries by someone who knew enough English to help, and equally I helped someone out with directions not that long ago in (very bad, admittedly) French when they didn't know enough English here in the UK. I don't see the problem with this if you understand, why not just help or serve a guy his sandwich?
Personally, though, I think the beauty of language is its ability to change and absorb words and sayings from all over the place who cares if it's from another language? It's how we're speaking the language we are now, after all. I love the fact that if there's a big immigrant population that certain things creep into the dialect between all the kids there, and the language evolves that way.
The only difference I can see is that English is such a predominant language and because of that I can understand French, German or Spanish-speaking countries trying to preserve their heritage as I think English is taking over the world, but I think English speaking countries such as the UK and the US worrying about another language taking over the country are just being hysterical it's not going to happen.
I do think, however, that resistance is a bit futile when it comes to all this language evolves and there isn't a lot we can do about it even if we wanted to.
Still worth trying though. As a speaker of a minority language (Irish), I hate the lazy attitude "but everyone speaks English so why should I even bother learning something else" (not speaking to you at all Lau btw, it's just that the final point sums up the attitude of many I meet).
I see anything to preserve a language against the onslaught of a dominant one, even if it's fighting the inevitable. We live an in increasingly homogeneous world so I've no problem with this.
I know what you're saying there, paddy, and it's why I'm more sympathetic to Chavez here in that he's preserving a minority language against the more dominant English. I have less sympathy for the preservation of English over immigrants speaking their own language just because I think it doesn't need the help.
And don't get me wrong – I love all the quirks and traditions about a language and I think they're worth preserving, but I just think they evolve along with everything else. To use an example – I see the Brits on here using certain words, and the US members starting to use them, and vice versa, but there's still huge distinctions between the two languages and I think there always will be. You pick up words and sayings from other languages but you still keep your own.
Haha great point.
But, language should evolve and be able to incorporate ones from other languages without disintegrating. English, of course, does this very well which I think is one of the reasons it's so successful. Think of it, English includes: German, French, Spanish, Hawaiian, Japanese, Greek, and Latin words. The word computer is essentially Latin. The word mouse has just been reused to describe something new.
Protecting a language against change and protecting a language against extinction are different things.
English loves to steal stuff. We have so many french words it is kind of funny when you consider all the hatred for the french in the US.
I know, but there's change and evolution in a language, and then there's dilution. If this evolution happens to quickly in a language it really just does become diluted.
It should be remembered that for several hundred years up to half of modern day France was English territory, and the upper classes of England spoke French amongst themselves as English itself was considered vulgar. Most European languages have elements of each other imported into them. It's a product of living so close to those who speak something else.
To come to think of it, I'm surprised our stop signs are still in English.
Yes, I know how languages influence each other. I was just finding the present situation amusing.
The inclusion of French into English is more historically related to the Norman conquest of Anglo-Saxon territories in 1066. Since the French were the ruling class of the time, English became the language of the peasants.
English was the vulgar language, French was the noble language, and Latin was the sacred language. This helps describe why English usually has three or more synonyms for nearly every word.