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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by edesignuk, Jun 17, 2008.
Not sure what I think about that, but there you go.
Why I've got half a mind to go brain these scientists, grr.
Have these people bug*er all else to do with their time? ..
Why do they keep paying these people to research crap like this. I mean whats the point - are they going to find a 'cure' for gay people???? OMFG
Its a reasonably well known theory that about 6weeks into a pregnancy is when the testosterone hosmone has greatest affect on any developing featus. If there is too much given to a female baby then she is more likely to have homosexual tendancies later in life and if too little is given to a male baby then he may grow up being gay (these are maybes, but the evidence suggests some truth to the idea) - in extreme cases where a female featus recives way too much testosterone then the girl may grow up with the body of a woman, but the brain structure and wires of a man (hence people who suffer from Gender Dysphoria (Trannsexualism)).
Whilst the work carried out by these scientists appears to validate such theorys to a point; I dont see the need to keep spending research money to explain things that cannot be changed (and why would we want to - is there something terribly wrong with gay people? I think not).
(My 5p worth anyways)
^^^ Possibly the best comment I've seen on a subject of this nature in ages
Hands up who in this thread has read the research paper. Even the abstract?
PET and MRI show differences in cerebral asymmetry and functional connectivity between homo- and heterosexual subjects
Cerebral responses to putative pheromones and objects of sexual attraction were recently found to differ between homo- and heterosexual subjects. Although this observation may merely mirror perceptional differences, it raises the intriguing question as to whether certain sexually dimorphic features in the brain may differ between individuals of the same sex but different sexual orientation. We addressed this issue by studying hemispheric asymmetry and functional connectivity, two parameters that in previous publications have shown specific sex differences. Ninety subjects [25 heterosexual men (HeM) and women (HeW), and 20 homosexual men (HoM) and women (HoW)] were investigated with magnetic resonance volumetry of cerebral and cerebellar hemispheres. Fifty of them also participated in PET measurements of cerebral blood flow, used for analyses of functional connections from the right and left amygdalae. HeM and HoW showed a rightward cerebral asymmetry, whereas volumes of the cerebral hemispheres were symmetrical in HoM and HeW. No cerebellar asymmetries were found. Homosexual subjects also showed sex-atypical amygdala connections. In HoM, as in HeW, the connections were more widespread from the left amygdala; in HoW and HeM, on the other hand, from the right amygdala. Furthermore, in HoM and HeW the connections were primarily displayed with the contralateral amygdala and the anterior cingulate, in HeM and HoW with the caudate, putamen, and the prefrontal cortex. The present study shows sex-atypical cerebral asymmetry and functional connections in homosexual subjects. The results cannot be primarily ascribed to learned effects, and they suggest a linkage to neurobiological entities.
They looked at brain sizes in heterosexuals as well. What would your reaction to be to sensationalist individuals posting that this knowledge will just be used by gays to 'cure' heterosexuality OMFG? And why does research have to be on things that can be changed? Examining the differences between sexes is a massive area of research - different sexes metabolise drugs differently, respond to drugs differently, require completely different procedures, have completely different risk factors for different diseases. If the caudate and putamen are indeed different in homosexuals, this could have ramifications on the risk (increased or decreased) of diseases like Parkinsons.
We're that good at interior design, even our own interiors are symmetric and aesthetically pleasing
Because that's what the wackos will try to do- find a "cure". They'll claim it's a "defect" and that we should find some way to "cure" homosexuality.
That might go hand-in-hand with better left/right brain co-ordination, which Woman are noted for.
That leads to better multi-tasking.
And dare I say, creative benefits??
I can see gay guys being trolled for having "women's brains". It certainly plays to the stereotype of homosexual men as emotional and prone to depression.
Other than that, the bigots will just claim it's a mutation or some other violation of the "natural" order.
Couldn't give a toss if people attempt to troll for that. All the troll does is prove themselves bigoted against women too
i think there is a natural order and bigots fall somewhere between insects and small rodents...at least when it comes to brain size
Then it X-Men 3 all over again. But, seriously... aren't people trying to PROVE that homosexuality is in fact genetic, and NOT driven primarily by "choice" and "development"? Sounds like a "good" thing to have science coming down in a more definitive way.
Or more hopefully, research like this will stop the ridiculous notion that homosexuality is a (bad) choice.
So we should stop doing reasonable, responsible, and (dare I say it) worthwhile research because a few wackos will misinterpret it? No science would ever get done!
Is it the right half??
*ducks and runs*
Yup! All the more reason to continue to ignore funding the National Institutes of Health and promote teaching "intelligent design" in schools [/sarcasm]
And for what it's worth, this is hardly the first study on anatomical differences between hetero- and homosexuals (or any other sexual differences for that matter)...
One would think. However, I've already heard many "christians" say that if science shows it is genetic, then it must be a flaw that can be "fixed", and that we should pursue such efforts.
No- just keep in mind that such information is never going to do a thing to change a bigot's mind, and may in fact be used against the subject of study. Do you think Einstein initially thought his research would be used to destroy entire cities? Probably not, but it happened.
Research of course should be done. But one should never fool himself into thinking the information would only be used for noble purposes.
Agreed. They'll argue that the genetic "mutation" occurred unnaturally and that it needs to be purged and fixed. I've been a gay christian all my life, but the self contradictions and hypocrisy in the church is at an all time high. "Thou shalt not judge" they say from the pulpit, then they run the streets yelling that we're bad people and going to hell and shouldn't be given rights. Umm...yeah. That goes together.
I'm all for any proof that shows I didn't choose to be what I am - I just am.
Well, it did take *research* to figure those things out. I don't see why everyone is hating on this study. These folks are just trying to find ways to assess gender and sexual orientation differences, and to find a biological basis for them. If you oppose this study, you should oppose all the work you cite above for in utero development.
However, the claim that this provides evidence for these preferences to be set in the womb is probably very weak. Actually, the authors claim that this only shows that sometime during development (either before or after birth) the preferences are physically set down in the brain. It was only that British lecturer quoted in the article (who, from what I can tell, was not associated with the study) who claims this as irrefutable evidence that sexuality is imprinted in the womb. However, doing a correlative MRI study on adults is not going to give you any sense of the time point or cause of a given outcome. I haven't yet read the paper, though, I guess I should do that first.
It is damned unfortunate that everyone gets so wrapped up in identity politics as to be terrified of increasing our scientific knowledge in this area. In a politically neutral environment it would be a perfectly legitimate subject of research, but because we fear the findings might interfere with our political positions gay folks and bigots alike want to suppress it in some sort of uneasy Lysenkoist detente.
It's also completely reasonable to expect that bigots will turn on a dime and warp any notion so as to putatively support their position. Hard as it may seem, I think it's better we fight them on solid ground.
The potentially optimistic way of looking at this particular outcome is, if this is something that affects, or is affected by, gross brain structure, then there is just no plausible avenue for a "cure" from this research. Quite the contrary, I think it fundamentally undermines the rationale for existing brainwashing "therapies" far more than it suggests new ones.
If there is anything that makes me nervous, it is the potential for hasty reductionism that might arise from this sort of research. Someone might get the bright idea of using a CT scanner as some sort of homometer and consider that result somehow more definitive than just asking, which would ultimately end up with a few otherwise well-adjusted and happy people getting told they are "in denial" (in either direction) about what the machine says their "true nature" should be.
I agree. Ideally, it shouldn't be an issue. I'm not saying the research shouldn't be done, but we need to bear in mind how such research could be abused and proceed with caution.
then what term should they use for it?
a while back i heard that the military dropped bombs on Iraq, not explosive ones, but one that release some kind of solution or dust that makes them attracted to the same sex. i wonder if they can do that then maybe they can do the opposite.
You mean like many homosexuals. Some of them are the worst misogynists I know. I'd personally get a kick out of them finding they had a girl's CPU up top.
Really? Care to provide a link to support said evidence? Wow- can't wait to see this one.