Scottish Independence [Moved from the UK iTunes tax increase thread]


bbfc

macrumors 68040
Oct 22, 2011
3,128
678
Newcastle, England.
It certainly is. Fortunately, 5 and a bit million of us get the chance in September this year to leave the UK. Not saying it will make any difference to situations similar to this, but at least we will have our own say on how things are done in Scotland :)
Except you want to keep the good parts - like a currency union and the Bank of England.
 

daveathall

macrumors 68000
Aug 6, 2010
1,989
93
North Yorkshire
With a bit of luck, best way for that to happen is to get us (The English) to vote. You'd soon be gone.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

fixmymac

macrumors regular
Original poster
Except you want to keep the good parts - like a currency union and the Bank of England.
Good for iScotland and good for rUK. Scotland didn't vote the current government in.

----------

With a bit of luck, best way for that to happen is to get us (The English) to vote. You'd soon be gone.
Thanks for the offer to help. But we can do this on our own :)
 

bbfc

macrumors 68040
Oct 22, 2011
3,128
678
Newcastle, England.
Good for iScotland and good for rUK. Scotland didn't vote the current government in.

----------



Thanks for the offer to help. But we can do this on our own :)
Except the UK government has said that their decision is final - no currency union. Problem is the SNP don't seem to have a plan b and whenever they are asked about 'what if?' They just say 'it's in the best interests for everyone that we have a currency union, blah blah blah'.
 

fixmymac

macrumors regular
Original poster
Except the UK government has said that their decision is final - no currency union. Problem is the SNP don't seem to have a plan b and whenever they are asked about 'what if?' They just say 'it's in the best interests for everyone that we have a currency union, blah blah blah'.
Most sensible commentators have seen through the campaign tactic on currency union. Even foreign experts are ripping the 'no currency union' stance apart.

The man on the street is clever enough to realise that Osborne will have his work cut out convincing his electorate to accept a tax imposed on their transactions.

Both sides are duty, and legally bound, to settle things in the best interests of their electorate. For iScotland and rUK, that is a currency union.
 

fixmymac

macrumors regular
Original poster
The millstone that is Scotland, we don't want you, we don't want to keep paying for your out of works your universities etc, etc. be gone and good riddance.

You really think you will be a loss to us?

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-economy/8375-bbc-reporter-claims-england-subsidises-the-rest-of-the-uk
From the same link...

"In the most recent year, Scotland contributed 9.9 per cent of UK tax revenues, in return for just 9.3 per cent of UK spending. Over the five years to 2011/12, Scotland has been financially stronger than the UK as a whole to the tune of £12.6 billion.

"And Scotland has contributed more tax per head than the rest of the UK in each and every one of the last 32 years - proving we can more than afford to be a successful independent country."


Figures and statistics will always be interpreted to suit either side of the argument. No one has stated that Scotland could not be a successful independent country. Not even Osborne or Cameron, who both seem keen to keep the millstone. I wonder why? Maybe Mr McCrone was onto something back in the 70's???
 

daveathall

macrumors 68000
Aug 6, 2010
1,989
93
North Yorkshire
Most sensible commentators have seen through the campaign tactic on currency union. Even foreign experts are ripping the 'no currency union' stance apart.

The man on the street is clever enough to realise that Osborne will have his work cut out convincing his electorate to accept a tax imposed on their transactions.

Both sides a duty, and legally bound, to settle things in the best interests of their electorate. For iScotland and rUK, that is a currency union.
The man on the street is clever enough to know that if Scotland went bust that we would then need to bail them out if there was a currency union. Wont happen. Period.

Edit; Just noticed your reply above, Big companies will move south, unemployment would go up. I would laugh.

You quoted what the SNP said from that article. ha ha ha ha. Who believes them?
 

fixmymac

macrumors regular
Original poster
The man on the street is clever enough to know that if Scotland went bust that we would then need to bail them out if there was a currency union. Wont happen. Period.

Edit; Just noticed your reply above, Big companies will move south, unemployment would go up. I would laugh.

You quoted what the SNP said from that article. ha ha ha ha. Who believes them?
Well, in 2011, the SNP managed to achieve something that was not supposed to be possible. A majority in our parliament. So enough of the electorate believed them to return the existing SNP minority with 69 seats (out of 129). So, they must have done something right in the previous session??

Free Education, so that poorer people have the same choices as richer and are not saddled with £9k per year fees.
Free Prescriptions, so that illness is not taxed.
Free Elderly Care, maintaining dignity for those who have contributed during their life.
Free Bus Passes for the elderly.

England doesn't pay for any of these things. Our Government simply decides to spend what it is given differently from the multimillionaire government at Westminster. The money doesn't come out of your pocket.

The money that should be in your pocket gets sent as 'Aid' to foreign countries with space programmes, on Trident tin cans that will never, ever be used. It funds the House of Lords to the tune of £300 per day just for turning up. Your NHS is being privatised by your Government's multimillionaire cronies.

The argument about who allegedly subsidises who is not what this is all about. It is plain and simply that we Scots want to do things differently. If we go bust, we go bust. You can then shout that you told us so. If we succeed, and you want to join us, we won't remind you of what you said beforehand. We will open our doors and welcome you in with a dram.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

daveathall

macrumors 68000
Aug 6, 2010
1,989
93
North Yorkshire
Well, in 2011, the SNP managed to achieve something that was not supposed to be possible. A majority in our parliament. So enough of the electorate believed them to return the existing SNP minority with 69 seats (out of 129). So, they must have done something right in the previous session??

Free Education, so that poorer people have the same choices as richer and are not saddled with £9k per year fees.
Free Prescriptions, so that illness is not taxed.
Free Elderly Care, maintaining dignity for those who have contributed during their life.
Free Bus Passes for the elderly.

England doesn't pay for any of these things. Our Government simply decides to spend what it is given differently from the multimillionaire government at Westminster. The money doesn't come out of your pocket.

The money that should be in your pocket gets sent as 'Aid' to foreign countries with space programmes, on Trident tin cans that will never, ever be used. It funds the House of Lords to the tune of £300 per day just for turning up. Your NHS is being privatised by your Government's multimillionaire cronies.

The argument about who allegedly subsidises who is not what this is all about. It is plain and simply that we Scots want to do things differently. If we go bust, we go bust. You can then shout that you told us so. If we succeed, and you want to join us, we won't remind you of what you said beforehand. We will open our doors and welcome you in with a dram.
Listen mate, you want to go, I want you to go, most of England wants rid of you. So we all want the same thing. Personally, I don't think it will happen, but there you are. We have taken this off topic, I will end my engagement here knowing that we both agree, Scotland should go.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

parish

macrumors 65816
Apr 14, 2009
1,082
1
Wilts., UK
It certainly is. Fortunately, 5 and a bit million of us get the chance in September this year to leave the UK. Not saying it will make any difference to situations similar to this, but at least we will have our own say on how things are done in Scotland :)
It'll make a big difference; you'll be outside the EU so intra-EU VAT rates will be irrelevant in an independent Scotland - or are you daft enough to believe Salmon when he says Scotland will still be in the EU when the EU has repeatedly said you won't (since Scotland, like England, Wales, and N.I. are only indirect members of the EU as part of the UK)
 

fixmymac

macrumors regular
Original poster
It'll make a big difference; you'll be outside the EU so intra-EU VAT rates will be irrelevant in an independent Scotland - or are you daft enough to believe Salmon when he says Scotland will still be in the EU when the EU has repeatedly said you won't (since Scotland, like England, Wales, and N.I. are only indirect members of the EU as part of the UK)
Deary, dear me. So all the experts who say the 18 month timeframe is sensible are all talking rubbish and the muppets who make up Better Together are right?
 

Bl0ckHe1d

macrumors 6502
Nov 19, 2009
355
32
Caledonia
It certainly is. Fortunately, 5 and a bit million of us get the chance in September this year to leave the UK. Not saying it will make any difference to situations similar to this, but at least we will have our own say on how things are done in Scotland :)
Don't be winding up our Southerners now!! My only fear on the Scotch-ish vote for independence that the divide will sooner bring a civil war than common sense, but that is another debate!

Wouldn't this price hike not encourage more people to piracy? The idiots at Westminister do not have a clue and really are out of touch from reality

----------

The man on the street is clever enough to know that if Scotland went bust that we would then need to bail them out if there was a currency union. Wont happen. Period.

Edit; Just noticed your reply above, Big companies will move south, unemployment would go up. I would laugh.

You quoted what the SNP said from that article. ha ha ha ha. Who believes them?
Bigger fishes moves out...smaller fishes moves in and reaps the profits, do you really think that the big fishes are going to let that happen? Engerland went burst too back in 2007, Mr Broon sold your pension and gold to bail us all out!

P.S. you can have all the nuke-clear crap on your door step, becoming an eye sore.
 

ItWasNotMe

macrumors 6502
Dec 1, 2012
279
83
It'll make a big difference; you'll be outside the EU so intra-EU VAT rates will be irrelevant in an independent Scotland - or are you daft enough to believe Salmon when he says Scotland will still be in the EU when the EU has repeatedly said you won't (since Scotland, like England, Wales, and N.I. are only indirect members of the EU as part of the UK)
Sorry but... if the customer is in the EU, it won't make any difference whether Scotland is in or out of UK or in or out of EU. The Scottish seller has to charge the VAT applicable in that member state.

Example the EU uses is "A person living in Barcelona pays a US company for access to American TV channels. The US company must charge the customer Spanish VAT."
 

daveathall

macrumors 68000
Aug 6, 2010
1,989
93
North Yorkshire
Bigger fishes moves out...smaller fishes moves in and reaps the profits, do you really think that the big fishes are going to let that happen?

P.S. you can have all the nuke-clear crap on your door step, becoming an eye sore.
As for your first question, yes I do. What banks and insurance companies (large or small) will want to move to an independent Scotland, we have heard of Banks and insurance companies that will move south, name one that has indicated that it will move into Scotland if it is independent.

As for your "P.S.", yep, happy with that, move those jobs south, as well as the ship building from the Clyde as well as the Army HQ's from Glasgow and Edinburgh, you won't vote to go, and you know it. Get the English to vote, that way you're guaranteed to go.
 
Last edited:

shotts56

macrumors 6502
Sep 23, 2008
375
21
Scotland
It'll make a big difference; you'll be outside the EU so intra-EU VAT rates will be irrelevant in an independent Scotland - or are you daft enough to believe Salmon when he says Scotland will still be in the EU when the EU has repeatedly said you won't (since Scotland, like England, Wales, and N.I. are only indirect members of the EU as part of the UK)
Stop making stuff up. The EU hasn't repeatedly said that.

Jose Manuel Barosso has said it on a couple of ocassions. He's head of the European Commission, not the EU. He has no legal authority to make decisions on membership, he is only saying that because he is Spanish and is afraid of a similar scenario developing with Catalonia.

There are 5 million EU citizens live in Scotland. Regardless of which way the vote goes in September, these 5 million people will still be EU citizens as there is no legal precedent or way to strip any individual of their rights as EU citizens.
 

69650

Suspended
Mar 23, 2006
3,342
1,861
England
Stop making stuff up. The EU hasn't repeatedly said that.

Jose Manuel Barosso has said it on a couple of ocassions. He's head of the European Commission, not the EU. He has no legal authority to make decisions on membership, he is only saying that because he is Spanish and is afraid of a similar scenario developing with Catalonia.

There are 5 million EU citizens live in Scotland. Regardless of which way the vote goes in September, these 5 million people will still be EU citizens as there is no legal precedent or way to strip any individual of their rights as EU citizens.
You are wrong. If Scotland goes independent they will not automatically be in the EU as they will become a new independent country. So they will have to apply to join. I'm not saying they won't get fast tracked in through some deal behind closed doors but it's not guaranteed which is what Barosso said. All he said was that it's not guaranteed, the EU would have to make a decision.

As for your second point it's very simple. If Scotland is not in the EU then it's inhabitants no longer become EU citizens.

Seems to me like Salmond wants all the gains of independence with non of the pains and risks. As far as I'm concerned he FO. You want to go then go. Most English people would be glad to see you leave instead of whining on all the time about how you hate the English. Go, but make your own currency, apply to join the EU and don't expect us to bail you out if it all goes tits up.
 

shotts56

macrumors 6502
Sep 23, 2008
375
21
Scotland
As for your second point it's very simple. If Scotland is not in the EU then it's inhabitants no longer become EU citizens.
You're incorrect there. There's no "become EU citizens". We are already EU citizens with all the rights of EU citizens (look at the top of your passport). Regardless of what happens in September, there is no mechanism for stripping anyone of their rights as EU citizens.
 

bsolar

macrumors 6502a
Jun 20, 2011
713
259
It's the UK which is a member, if Scotland leaves the UK it leaves the EU. The EU has been quite clear about this, Scptland will have to re-apply for membership and there is a long line of countries currently waiting.
As far as I understand Scotland's independence would be realized in 2 years after the vote, assuming it successful. This timeframe was considered to be realistic to guarantee EU membership once independence is completed by the legal expert tasked by the UK to assess the split's consequences.
 

daveathall

macrumors 68000
Aug 6, 2010
1,989
93
North Yorkshire
You're incorrect there. There's no "become EU citizens". We are already EU citizens with all the rights of EU citizens (look at the top of your passport). Regardless of what happens in September, there is no mechanism for stripping anyone of their rights as EU citizens.
Have you got a link to that that is not from the SNP?

TBH, I am not bothered either way whether Scotland is allowed EU status, I hope they become independent but as far as I know the EU has not guaranteed the Scots free passage into the EU. Salmon has indicated that much though so it must be true.
 
Last edited: