Semper Lie: Marine Commandant Amos Padded Resume

Wild-Bill

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Among other questionable things.......


LINK

He should be stripped of his rank and his retirement taken away. He's managed to singlehandedly tarnish the reputation of the Marine Corps. Not only for his inappropriate command influence on the presiding authority of Courts Martial, but for not attending The Basic School and then LYING about it. He gives Marine aviators a bad name. How in the world could someone with his complete lack of integrity become Commandant!?

And, for those unfamiliar: there IS NO "correspondence course" for The Basic School. It's six straight months of training. Marine aviators typically DO NOT want to go, but ALL Marine Officers go. Period. Particularly when it comes to close air support (CAS), The Basic School essentially gives aviators insight into what the grunts go through, and how to best support them. Because they had to go through it themselves at The Basic School.

Two words: BLANKET PARTY. :mad::mad::mad::mad:
 

Naimfan

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If people wonder why so many rank and file service people have such little faith in upper management (it cannot be called "leadership"), this is a good example. Nothing is likely to happen to him, even though under the UCMJ he COULD be stripped of his rank (all of it) and his retirement.

It's analogous to what Petraeus got away with, and innumerable other O7 and above officers have managed to sweep under the rug.
 

aaronvan

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This story comes out just as the guy is retiring as a four-star, with a retired monthly pay of $14,821.00.

He lied to the U.S. Senate; however, he'll still land a cushy job at some defense contractors for a couple million a year.

Something is wrong with the entire general officer corps in all the services, but especially the Navy.
 

vrDrew

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He should be stripped of his rank and his retirement taken away. He's managed to singlehandedly tarnish the reputation of the Marine Corps..
He served his country honorably for forty four years.

Lets put this in perspective: Amos has had an ongoing battle with some elements within the Marine Corps as a result of his handling of the case involving Marines urinating on alleged Taliban corpses. (Amos wanted to make sure the perpetrators were punished, some guys in the 'Corps apparently didn't.)

Amos was a transfer from the Navy to the Marine Corps as a Naval Aviator in the late stages of the Vietnam War. As an experienced Navy flier, it would have been strange indeed for him to have attended Basic School, which is is the equivalent of Boot Camp for Marine Officers, along with men several years younger and junior in rank.

To know definitively whether or not Amos deliberately misled anyone on his official resume, or whether or not that influenced his appointment as Commandant is impossible for anyone outside the immediate circles to know or say.

But whether or not he receives a pension as a 4-Star or 3-Star General, I'd say pretty confidently, making an error on a resume (deliberate or not) does far less to damage the reputation of the Marine Corps than a YouTube video of Marines committing war crimes.
 

Naimfan

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He served his country honorably for forty four years.
(Emphasis added.)

Really? After lying to the Senate? That's honorable? I'd resign if I did anything of the sort.

As I said, this is a good example of why many of the rank and file have so little trust or confidence in upper management. When I've had to discipline people, the higher the rank they have, the harsher I tend to be because I expect more from them. A kid is late to formation? Yawn. A captain gets a DUI? Goodbye. A four star general lies to the Senate in a sworn document? Whether intentional or not, that's fraud.
 

vrDrew

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Really? After lying to the Senate? That's honorable? I'd resign if I did anything of the sort. .
Without knowing exactly what the requirements for adding the Basic School qualification to one's service record back in the early 1970s - its difficult to term that a "lie."

We don't know what the circumstances were. All Marine Officers are required to have passed the Basic School qualification. Amos transferred from the Navy to the Marine Corps for a reason. And apparently he did whatever was necessary at the time time to satisfy his commanders and the promotion boards he faced over the intervening forty-odd years that he was qualified.

Things probably wouldn't happen that way today. But to term Amos actions as "lying to the Senate" assumes facts that we really don't have.
 

Southern Dad

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I believe that any action should be taken for the lying to the Senate which is not a military charge. He earned his retirement, let him have it. If they want to prosecute him for lying to the Senate, they can certainly do that and he should get the same penalty as anyone else who lies to the Senate.

Personally, I'd say there is a good chance that he didn't write the resume in question but rather some junior officer did. That junior officer most likely assumed that he had attended since all US Marine officers do now. And truthfully, after 44 years, he may not remember clearly if he did attend what the Marines call Basic School, he certainly did attend some sort of basic training. Having come from Navy to Marines, he may have assumed his Navy basic was the same thing.
 

citizenzen

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... Personally, I'd say there is a good chance that he didn't write the resume in question but rather some junior officer did. That junior officer most likely assumed that he had attended since all US Marine officers do now. And truthfully, after 44 years, he may not remember clearly if he did attend what the Marines call Basic School, he certainly did attend some sort of basic training. Having come from Navy to Marines, he may have assumed his Navy basic was the same thing.
And this man who can't write, can't read, and can't remember, made it all the way to a 4-star general?
 

Southern Dad

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And this man who can't write, can't read, and can't remember, made it all the way to a 4-star general?
Who said he can't write or read? Generals have a dog robber working for them to handle the minor tasks. I seriously doubt he would have personally completed this type of thing. And he did attend basic but not the Basic School they are referring to. If you asked me if I attended Basic School, I'd have answered, yes. I went to BASIC training at Ft Leonardwood and I went to OBC at Ft Sill. But coming from the Army, not the USMC, I would not realize that Basic School was different than what I had been to. This general was Navy before he switched over to USMC.

Everything doesn't have to be part of a deceptive plot to ruthlessly claw to the top. Sometimes, people misspeak or make a mistake.
 

Wild-Bill

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First of all, there is no correspondence course for The Basic School. This is a six-month MANDATORY course for Officers after they complete OCS. It's not "basic training".

Second, I happened to have known a female Navy Ensign, who decided (while in FLIGHT SCHOOL) to do an inter-service transfer to the Marines. After she got winged, she had to go to TBS. I can't imagine the hell that was - having to trudge through TBS a winged aviator and 1stLt.

Third, the Major who was quoted in that article that Gen Amos completed it via correspondence is lying. Plain & simple.

Fourth, Amos' record was purposely altered so he could be confirmed as Commandant. That amounts to perjury in my opinion.

Fifth, ask any Marine, better yet.... Ask any Marine Officer what they think about this nonsense. I assure you their opinions will all be negative.

Sixth, this casts the entire Marine Corps in a negative light. The COMMANDANT of the Marine Corps should not have integrity lapses, nor ACTIVELY INTERFERE with court martial proceedings to get the outcome he wants. Shameful.

Chesty Puller is spinning in his grave.
 

citizenzen

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Who said he can't write or read? Generals have a dog robber working for them to handle the minor tasks. I seriously doubt he would have personally completed this type of thing. ...
Just seems like to me you're making excuses for him. Even if he didn't write the resume he is the one responsible for it's content. If he didn't read it, or didn't read it over carefully enough, that doesn't speak well of his due diligence or attention to detail.
 

Wild-Bill

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This story comes out just as the guy is retiring as a four-star, with a retired monthly pay of $14,821.00.

He lied to the U.S. Senate; however, he'll still land a cushy job at some defense contractors for a couple million a year.

Something is wrong with the entire general officer corps in all the services, but especially the Navy.
If your calculations are correct (too lazy to check), that amounts to a retirement of over $177,852 a year. There is no way that an individual who has managed to tarnish the reputation of an entire branch of service deserves that.
 

vrDrew

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There is no way that an individual who has managed to tarnish the reputation of an entire branch of service deserves that.
Sorry, but thats not the way things work in a society like ours.

Pensions are calculated according to formulas set down in law. And - btw - a retired 4-star with more than 40 years service could theoretically make more than $270,000 in pension.

Unless Amos were convicted by Court Martial, stripping him of his rank and imposing financial penalties, he quite literally is entitled to the pension he will be receiving.

But I'd prefer that sort of decision be made by the appropriate military legal authorities. Rather than a writer from the Moonie-owned Washington Times.
 

Wild-Bill

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Sorry, but thats not the way things work in a society like ours.

Pensions are calculated according to formulas set down in law. And - btw - a retired 4-star with more than 40 years service could theoretically make more than $270,000 in pension.

Unless Amos were convicted by Court Martial, stripping him of his rank and imposing financial penalties, he quite literally is entitled to the pension he will be receiving.

But I'd prefer that sort of decision be made by the appropriate military legal authorities. Rather than a writer from the Moonie-owned Washington Times.
While you are correct about "deserved" versus law and (current) society, he could be reduced in rank to 3-star.

And the Washington Times isn't the only "news" organization that has picked this up.
 

vrDrew

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And the Washington Times isn't the only "news" organization that has picked this up.
But they are making more out of something that really, in the big scheme of things, is irrelevant.

Amos' did not, under oath, and part of his Confirmation before the Senate, claim that he attended and graduated the Marine Officers' Basic School. That would count as "lying to the Senate." Just as in the civilian criminal charge of Perjury, the error or omission has to be not only deliberate, but it has to be material. Meaning that on a factual basis the truth or untruth asserted would make a fundamental difference in the outcome of the proceedings.

That, it seems, is unlikely to be the case. Obviously, in 1974 the Marine Corps thought then-Lieutenant Amos was qualified for his job. And the US Senate in 2010 thought he was qualified to do the job, based not on his performance as a junior Lt. in the 1970s - but as a 2- and 3-star General in the 2000s.

Then we have the "tarnish the reputation" argument, which I further assert is without merit. Simply put, I doubt anyone outside of a very small minority of active and former Marines really cares one way or another over whether a Navy Inter-Service-Transfereree did, or did not, go to some classes in 1974 or 1975. Or, if not, exactly how he met the then-extant service requirements. Civilians, in this country and elsewhere, simply don't care. Nor should they.

Lastly, as regards his pension: We may very well question the utter accuracy of the Basic School claim. But the fact remains that for four year Amos did the job of Marine Commandant. And having done that, he deserves, and is entitled to, the pension benefits he will be receiving.
 

Southern Dad

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While you are correct about "deserved" versus law and (current) society, he could be reduced in rank to 3-star.

And the Washington Times isn't the only "news" organization that has picked this up.
Reducing him to three star general, or even private wouldn't change his retirement pay. His retirement pay is calculated based upon the highest rank held.
 

Roric

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an individual who has managed to tarnish the reputation of an entire branch of service
OK, I am just going to pour the gas on this and throw the lit match right after it... If a few words on a piece of paper describing something that may or may not have happened 40 years ago can "tarnish the reputation of an entire branch of service", then that reputation must not have been very strong to begin with.

You could say this tarnishes his personal/professional reputation, but this certainly does nothing to the reputation of a branch of service that has existed for almost as long as this country!
 

aaronvan

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Reducing him to three star general, or even private wouldn't change his retirement pay. His retirement pay is calculated based upon the highest rank held.
Actually, retirement pay is the average of your last three years of service. Whatever his retirement is, it will be a hell of a lot more than a 24-year major. :D
 

Naimfan

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Actually, retirement pay is the average of your last three years of service. Whatever his retirement is, it will be a hell of a lot more than a 24-year major. :D
Yep, and a LOT more than mine!

Though it could be forfeited if convicted by GCM and sentence includes dishonorable discharge.
 

Don't panic

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kind of an irrelevant point, and only triggered by the thread title.
i often wondered why the marines pronounce their 'semper fi" as 'fie' (as in 'fine'), rather than the logical 'fe' (as in 'fig'), given its origin (latin, semper fidelis).
i know it doesn't matter, but it always seemed bizarre to me they would 'mispronounce' their own motto.
 

Technarchy

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Way above my pay grade, but I sure as hell wouldn't want the job of going after the Commandant.

There is reason I'd rather go to WOC school than make a higher Officer rank.
 
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