Senate Democrats Then vs. Now

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by thetexan, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. thetexan macrumors 6502a

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    #1
    http://www.breitbart.tv/obama-dems-...ogant-power-grab-against-the-founders-intent/

    Quick video of a few Democrats protesting Bush's plans to end the filibuster over judicial nominations. One senator even warns us that one day such appalling tactics might be used to pass legislation.

    I hope we see many of these same faces speak out against Obama if he tries to use reconciliation to pass his health care legislation.
     
  2. MacHipster macrumors 6502

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    #2
    You do realize that neither Bush nor Obama can end the filibuster or use reconciliation, right? The use of the filibuster by the GOP has hit record levels and little is getting accomplished. Reconciliation is a tool that can be used when a minority party attempts to block everything for the sake of blocking it.
     
  3. iPhil macrumors 68040

    iPhil

    #3
    Nuclear Option:


    In U.S. politics, the nuclear option is an attempt by a majority of the United States Senate to end a filibuster by invoking a point of order to essentially declare the filibuster unconstitutional which can be decided by a simple majority, rather than seeking formal cloture with a supermajority of 60 senators. Although it is not provided for in the formal rules of the Senate, the procedure is the subject of a 1957 parliamentary opinion and has been used on several occasions since. The term was coined by Senator Trent Lott (Republican of Mississippi) in 2005; prior to this it was known as the constitutional option.

    The maneuver was brought to prominence in 2005 when then-Majority Leader Bill Frist (Republican of Tennessee) threatened its use to end Democratic-led filibusters of judicial nominees submitted by President George W. Bush. In response to this threat, Democrats threatened to shut down the Senate and prevent consideration of all routine and legislative Senate business. The ultimate confrontation was prevented by the Gang of 14, a group of seven Democratic and seven Republican Senators, all of whom agreed to oppose the nuclear option and oppose filibusters of judicial nominees, except in extraordinary circumstances.


    Reconciliation:

    During the administration of President George W. Bush, Congress used reconciliation to enact three major tax cuts, each of which substantially increased the deficit. These tax cuts were set to lapse after 10 years to satisfy the Byrd Rule. Efforts to use reconciliation to open the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling failed.



    There's a difference between the two options I've already listed them both for the "class" ....
     
  4. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #4
    Are you demanding that the republicans who called the fillibuster unconstitutional also speak out and demand repeal of the fillibuster now?

    Hmm... can't imagine why not. :rolleyes:

    Oh, and Breitbart? He's the guy associated with the O'Keefe guy who just got arrested for attempting to mess with the phone system in a Democrat's office. Not exactly a paragon of integrity, those folks.
     
  5. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #5
    How exactly does the president, I don't care who it is, control how the legislative branch operates? Sure he can ask, but I think people need to learn about how our system works a bit more before making such comments.

    If anything, the Obama Administration so far should be used to show how little power the president has over congress and the senate.
     
  6. freeny macrumors 68020

    freeny

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    #6
    So did the protest work? Did the Republican bill pass?...
     
  7. thetexan thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    The Republicans suck. Both parties are hypocrites and their whole way of doing business changes as they gain/lose power. It's my belief that the Senate has the ability to filibuster whatever they want. It's also the belief of a few high power Democratic Senators as shown here.

    Also who cares about Breitbart? All he did was put actual footage into a video clip. Are you implying that because he lacks integrity that perhaps the video footage is Doctored? Maybe he hired the director of Avatar to CGI in all of the Democratic Senator's comments!
     
  8. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #8
    Do you consider yourself a strict constitutionalist?

    He collaborated with O'Keefe to present doctored video to the world about ACORN... Not saying that he did anything similar here, but I take anything Breitbart says with a heaping helping of salt.
     
  9. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #9
    The problem with that is those are not true filibusters. I blame the Dems for this mess as much as the Rep. They refuse to call the GOP buff.

    Force the GOP to do a true filibuster and you would see the number drop like a rock. The mear threat of a filibuster is enough to make them not bring the issue to the floor. You can not blame the GOP for stopping everything if the Dems will not force the GOP to act on their bluff.
     
  10. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #10
    Someone should put together a video of the Republicans who demanded an "upperdown vote" during the Bush years, and decried Democrats as obstructionist.

    And speaking of which, it's sad that the Democrats can't get their **** together enough to pound that message home every day. They should be out there demanding that the GOP allow an "upperdown vote" on health care. But they're not. Which is typical.
     
  11. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #11
    I've said it before and unfortunately it looks like I'll be saying it forever, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS NO BALLS
     
  12. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #12
    The Democratic party aren't really much better than the Republicans to be honest.
     
  13. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #13
    That, and they don't have a liberal echo-chamber. Turn on any AM radio at any time of day and you will hear the likes of Limbaugh, Levin, Hannity, O'Reilly, Beck and Coulter. Turn on FoxNews, and it's a right-wing advertisement. My goodness, the other night they dedicated 10 minutes to Huckabee and him playing bass in a band.
     
  14. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #14
    That's true, I'm sure that makes a difference. The risk of proposing anything slightly left wing is that you get labelled a communist.
     
  15. thetexan thread starter macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    Somebody should.

    Someone should also put together a video of the Democrats decrying Republicans as obstructionist as well as the video of the Republicans decrying the Democrats. I guess we quickly forgot about the Democrats pissing and moaning over some judicial nominees, kind of how the Republicans are doing now and being decried for it.

    Bottom line is both parties are guilty of hypocrisy. Both parties to me equally suck. The campaign promise of Obama was that he is above this DC nonsense, and he is bringing change to a broken system. Anyone who believed he was different was a gullible person. Anyone who believes he is actually different is just a moron.
     
  16. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #16
    I believe the term is 'moran'. :p

    And I'm still curious whether you consider yourself to be a strict constitutionalist or not?
     
  17. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #17
    Didn't the Democrats actually let Bush pass his judicial posts in the end?

    The Republicans aren't letting the Democrats pass a healthcare bill however.
     
  18. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #18
    Yes, because the GOP threatened them with eliminating the fillibuster. Because it was a believable threat, the Democrats caved and allowed Bush's nominees to move forward.

    Because there is no credible threat of any downside to their obstructionism. Democrats refuse to take to the airwaves to denounce the obstructionism the way Republicans did under Bush. The GOP knows that the Democrats are too spineless to take any punitive action against them (such as removing the fillibuster themselves). And the GOP base is totally supportive of the GOP blocking anything that could be seen as an Obama victory just on principle. Doesn't matter if it's bad for the country or not, just so long as it's good for the GOP. Country first, and all that...
     
  19. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #19
    Um...and that's not all.

    It's one thing to block ideologue judicial nominees, it's fully another to bring the country to a grinding halt.
     
  20. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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  21. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #21
    I think thats why IMO there is alot more diversity in the beleifs of liberals, which is part of why there is no unified liberal party. Certain people like to say that is the democrats, but they're simply lying to themselves and others, or have no concept of the political spectrum outside their comfy little bubble.
     
  22. IntheNet macrumors regular

    IntheNet

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    #22
    Number 1, the video on Breitbart, "OBAMA & DEMS IN 2005: 51 VOTE ‘NUCLEAR OPTION’ IS ‘ARROGANT’ POWER GRAB AGAINST THE FOUNDERS’ INTENT," clearly shows the hypocrisy of Democrats in this regard.

    Number 2, it seems your pejorative "doctored," is meant to devalue the O'Keefe and Giles investigative journalism videos on ACORN's illegality or imply the videos were not real and/or manipulated. They were real videos, un-manipulated, and the the videos led ACORN to dismiss many ACORN staff involved due to illegality, and the videos ultimately forced ACORN to re-evaluate its organization. More important, the videos ultimately cut funding to ACORN and illuminate the organzation's illegality to the nation. Number 3, what 'collaboration' are you insinuating between journalist Andrew Breitbart and O'Keefe and Giles and what are you basing that on?

    What the Breitbart site is doing here is holding Democrats to their word (that they issued and promulgated in 2005) and the issue here is not Breitbart news service, investigative journalists O'Keefe or Giles, but Democrat hypocrisy.
     
  23. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #23

    I think the dems know if they remove the filibuster it would turn what was already going to be a bad election year for them to a god awful one.

    There already is a credible threat that the GOP will become the majority in both the Senate and the house again. Imagine what happen if they removed it and they lose the majority at mid term.
     
  24. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #24
    No that proves the Dems have zero balls. They will not call the GOP bluff and force the filibuster.

    If the dems called the bluff and forced them to do a true filibuster the number of times it would be used would drop back to a few per year. Until they force them to do it the Dems are as much to blame for it if not more so than the GOP.

    It is the one weapon the GOP has. The Dems are not forcing them to use it.
     
  25. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #25
    The Economist has been implying that that isn't possible, can they really challenge for a filibuster?
     

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