Senate report: Rice, Cheney OK'd CIA use of waterboarding

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by freeny, Apr 23, 2009.

  1. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #2
    I hate torture. Those who deny it and practice it should really be subject to the same kind of treatment.

    How about a lie detector to get the truth out? Easy, and is mentally challenging to trick or fake.
     
  2. freeny thread starter macrumors 68020

    freeny

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  3. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #4
  4. Shivetya macrumors 65816

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    #5
    Give them medals.

    convenient how certain parts of the press are totally ignoring the information obtained (and that documents on that were released to some extent as well)


    Look at it this way, these people should have been alive to bring to Gitmo. They certainly were ready to kill thousands more. The CIA and Bush people would have been eviscerated if they didn't do this and something bad happened.

    Obama is going to handcuff himself by allowing any chasing of previous administration people. You simply cannot prosecute on the basis of a difference in policy.

    If you read the documents you see the extreme steps they went to to preclude physical harm. You also get to see how much of the claims by RedCross were just bogus or exaggerated.

    I have no pity for terrorists. They are murderers and I see no reason why a civilized society should suffer their existence. Allowing them to live is an affront to the victims and future victims. Dead terrorists can never kill again. They have show no qualm in killing woman or children; and most come from the most discriminatory societies on earth; so why do so many rush to their defense? Oh thats right, BDS.
     
  5. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #6
    Not a problem. Every airport in Hawaii has lei detectors. ;)

    Although I still doubt any of these people will spend one minute in a resort-prison (let alone in a cold room or a small box or having their head slammed into a plywood-covered concrete block wall); Rice, Cheney, Yoo, Addington, and Bybee have to be a little uncomfortable at the direction the conversation has taken lately.

    The most disgusting part of all of this is that it now appears that torture was authorized in order to produce evidence that al Qaeda was in cahoots with Iraq, despite all evidence pointing to the contrary. IOW, these people appear to have been using torture to try to extract false confessions for political gain.

    There's also the allegation that the authors of this authorization knew they were on thin legal ice. Opposing views were circulated, and at least one senior aid is alleging that the administration attempted to gather up and destroy all copies of his memorandum opposing the legal reasoning Yoo and Bybee ginned up to justify torturing people.

    This story ain't goin' away anytime soon...
     
  6. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #7
    I HATE my grammar:eek:
     
  7. heehee macrumors 68020

    heehee

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    #8
    What if you torture an innocent guy?
     
  8. freeny thread starter macrumors 68020

    freeny

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    #9
    Whoa there buddy,
    no one is "defending" the terrorists here.
    We are questioning the practices used in interrogation.

    Also, any "effectiveness" from the torture is up for debate-
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/us/politics/23detain.html?hp

    What information was obtained specifically from the torture methods?... link?
     
  9. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #10
    Torture: ripping your finger nails off, cutting fingers/limbs off, stabbing an eye out, chopping head off, gassing someone, radiating them, electrocution. All of these the terrorists would happily do to our troops.

    Most of the techniques we used were administered on OUR OWN PEOPLE before they were used in the field. I will take thousands of American lives over a couple terrorist being given a fake drowning any day. In fact if waterboarding saved 1 American life then I say it was justified, after all there was no long term damage done to these *******s, they are trying to mount a legal defense for themselves for god sake. Not to mention that no one had a problem with the tactics right after 9/11.

    I fear for the future of America, our enemies know we are weak, and I don't see why they would give up any information when the worst we are willing to do to them is bring them out to lunch and try to get some info. :rolleyes:
     
  10. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #11
    snip

    You do realize "Torture" is not a policy stance in the United States don't you?

    It's against US laws and international laws. It is something that this country and hundreds of other civilized countries have agreed not to do.
    It's part of the Geneva Convention.

    Yes some nut jobs blew up the twin towers and killed a lot of people. They should be subjected to the United States laws.

    Torturing them 30 times a day to get them to tell you a lie about Iraq is NOT justice and as long as you have the opinion that it's ok to torture in certain circumstances you become no better that the terrorist.


    I recommend you stop taking the television show 24 too seriously.
     
  11. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #12
    http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46949

    "The Central Intelligence Agency told CNSNews.com today that it stands by the assertion made in a May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that the use of “enhanced techniques” of interrogation on al Qaeda leader Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) -- including the use of waterboarding -- caused KSM to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to thwart a planned attack on Los Angeles.

    Before he was waterboarded, when KSM was asked about planned attacks on the United States, he ominously told his CIA interrogators, “Soon, you will know.”

    According to the previously classified May 30, 2005 Justice Department memo that was released by President Barack Obama last week, the thwarted attack -- which KSM called the “Second Wave”-- planned “ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles.”

    KSM was the mastermind of the first “hijacked-airliner” attacks on the United States, which struck the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Northern Virginia on Sept. 11, 2001."
     
  12. freeny thread starter macrumors 68020

    freeny

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    #13
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/us/politics/23detain.html?hp

    "But which information came from which methods, and whether the same result might have been achieved without the political, legal and moral cost of the torture controversy, is hotly disputed, even inside the intelligence agency.

    The Justice Department memorandums released last week illustrate how difficult it can be to assess claims of effectiveness. One 2005 memorandum, for example, asserts that “enhanced techniques” used on Abu Zubaydah and Mr. Mohammed “yielded critical information.”

    But the memorandum then lists among Abu Zubaydah’s revelations the identification of Mr. Mohammed and of an alleged radiological bomb plot by Jose Padilla, the American Qaeda associate. Both those disclosures were made long before Abu Zubaydah was subjected to harsh treatment, according to multiple accounts.

    On Mr. Mohammed, the record is murkier. The memorandum says that “before the C.I.A. used enhanced techniques,” Mr. Mohammed “resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks, ‘Simply noting, ‘Soon, you will know.’ ”

    But the same memorandum reveals in a footnote that Mr. Mohammed, captured on March 1, 2003, was waterboarded 183 times that month. That striking number, which would average out to six waterboardings a day, suggests that interrogators did not try a traditional, rapport-building approach for long before escalating to their most extreme tool."
    ---------------------

    Where was the "Before he was waterboarded" part?

    You do understand that laws were broken here dont you?
    Or do laws only apply when Democrats are in office?
     
  13. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #14
    Pure speculation with nothing backing it. Just because you get waterboarded 6 times a day doesn't mean they didn't try a traditional interrogation beforehand, these officials were better people than I am, if I knew there was an upcoming terror plot and he said "soon you will know" I would beat his face into a bloody pulp.
     
  14. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #15

    You can stop using the term "enhanced technique". The Bush administration already admitted it was "torture". Please get with reality and stop using denial.

    Oh and with your attitude you should join the military. Maybe get rid of some of that hatred you have inside you.

    Any way you twist this it's still VERY illegal.

    Using your logic we should torture Bush and Cheney to get info from them about the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens they killed.
     
  15. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #16
    So both of you contend that what we do to these alleged terrorists really isn't all that bad?

    Zombie, if you could save 1 American life by banning handguns in the US, would you do it?
     
  16. remmy macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    So the past administration lied about if Iraq had WMDs. They also lied on if they used torture techniques such as simulated drowning. Wonder how much more lies the US yet to discover.
     
  17. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #18
    Sorry but that's just downright brilliant. Kudos!!

    I eagerly await the answer.
     
  18. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #19
    Banning handguns would endanger more Americans than save, so no.

    No it wasn't that bad, if we did it to our own people beforehand it couldn't have been. I would volunteer to get waterboarded just to shut the left up.
     
  19. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #20
    Did it permanently hurt the terrorists? No.

    Under your reasoning we might as well get rid of police issued weapons including guns, tazers, and then tie their hands behind their back and have them go fight crime. Surely shocking or shooting someone is more torturous than waterboarding.

    You can live in powder puff land or actually join the reality that is this world. I will choose the later, we saved Americans, democrats as well as republicans knew what was going on and did nothing because they were getting information.

    Imagine what would happen if Democrats blocked this "torture" and then 9/11 (2) happened, guess what? No Obama.
     
  20. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #21
    Stoking international anti-American sentiment and putting the rest of the world on notice that torture is no longer considered beyond the pale within the civilized world endangers more Americans than are saved by the crumbs of unreliable information torture produces.
     
  21. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #22
    Waterboarding = fake drowning, we aren't chopping off limbs here and gassing people. Like I said before I will volunteer to be waterboarded.
     
  22. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #23
    Your reply had absolutely nothing to do with my statement.

    Have you ever been in the military ?
     
  23. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #24
    Ok, well torturing foreigners endangers more Americans than it saves, so your argument for torture falls apart.

    So if it's not that bad, how can it be effective? Are these guys just pu**ies compared to Americans?
     
  24. freeny thread starter macrumors 68020

    freeny

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    #25
    Made to feel like im drowning 6 times a day for a month sounds pretty torturous to me.
    Sure you want to volunteer for that?
     

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