Separatists Attack Train Station in China

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by citizenzen, Mar 2, 2014.

  1. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #1

    Two things come to mind ...

    1. My sympathies for those caught up in this violence. It's a terrible tragedy.

    2. I need to know more about the internal struggles going on in China.
     
  2. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #2
    Agreed.

    System Of A Down dove a bit into it roughly 8 years ago with the first title track of their double album at that time:

    One thing is for sure; someone will spin this to make the separatists sound like "freedom fighters".. One side's "freedom fighters" = the other side's "terrorists".

    BL.
     
  3. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #3
    Everybody seems to think that China will be the world's next superpower. Perhaps. Perhaps not. It is possible that bad decisions made by the Chinese leadership will eventually come back to haunt them. I suspect that we'll hear about more incidents like this.

    Very sad news ....
     
  4. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #4
    I don't think this has anything to do with Tiananmen Square.

    Let's not forget large amounts of India are controlled by Maoists.
     
  5. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #5
    It doesn't have anything to do with Tiananmen Square. It asks the bigger question of "we know the event that happened, but we don't know why," and "what is the real story/motive behind this, without the spin the Chinese government gives, and without the Chinese government cracking down on the other side's story, leaving us with what only their government tells us."

    That's pretty much what happened at Tiananmen, and that was the only big example they had, as the immolations hadn't started in Tibet, nor had the issues with the Uyghurs. But notice how even visiting Tiananmen or talking about Tibet during the Olympics would have got you kicked out of the country?

    BL.
     
  6. Shrink macrumors G3

    Shrink

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    #6
    Geez...it took four posts to try (and undoubtedly succeed) in turning this into a gun thread.

    Who would have guessed...

    :rolleyes:
     
  7. Eraserhead, Mar 3, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2014

    Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #7
    Fair point. One weakness of reporting on Chinese stories is that it can be difficult to get an alternative perspective to the Chinese governments official narritive.

    I disagree - if anything this is a counterexample as the Tiananmen incident of 1989 was widely covered by the western media who were all there.

    Given Tiananmen is a very large square in the centre of Beijing which contains the Forbidden City and Mao's tomb as well as having a major subway line underneath it I can't see how you can avoid visiting the square.

    And I can't see how you'd be thrown out the country for doing something like that.

    If you go up to Chinese citizens and start talking about Tibet with the anti-Chinese spin that you would be highly likely to use, then yes I agree you'd be likely to be thrown out of the country. And I agree that in basically every Western country that you wouldn't be thrown out of the country for doing such a thing.
     
  8. Solomani macrumors 68030

    Solomani

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    #8
    The internal struggles are primarily in the peripheral regions of China, the various "autonomous regions" such as Xinjiang, Tibet, etc. For the most part, the populations there are NOT Mandarin-speaking Han Chinese. And more importantly, they have retained their non-Chinese culture, so they do not consider themselves as "Chinese", rather they consider themselves an occupied territory, a subjugated people.

    Xinjiang is interesting because that region of China has been subjugated since... over 200 years ago. In fact, the first time China 'conquered' the area was during the Manchurian Qing dynasty (i.e. also the last dynasty before the monarchy was overthrown).

    Xinjiang you can basically look at it like "Far Eastern Turkmenistan", and the ancient people there are basically a mixture of Mongol descendants, Turkmen (the ancestors of the Ottoman Turks), etc. Uighur is the current predominant ethnic group. They are also related to the Central Asian peoples, like the steppe people like the Kazhaks and Uzbeks and Turkmen. If you look at the faces of these people, they do NOT look Chinese at all. They look more Persian-Afghan, with that Eurasian look.

    The people of the region have been Muslims since the final days of the Mongol Empire, since the last Mongol khans converted to Islam.

    In modern times, it seems that they are becoming nationalistic again because of their growing resentment with the policies of Beijing, with the Chinese government attempting to relocate thousands of ethnic Han Chinese into the normally empty Xinjiang region. And probably, of course, because the Chinese government is clearly paranoid of any potential for Islamic radicalism.

    So the current Xinjiang Uighurs are not only being treated as 2nd-class citizen in their own native homeland, but they are also seeing their lands being turned over to ethnic Han (Mandarin) Chinese.

    In the last few years, there were numerous articles (from National Geographic and even Time magazine) that showed tons of empty cities due to over construction in this region. The Government in Beijing spent millions creating "affordable" housing in this frontier region so that many ethnic Han Chinese would be tempted to move there. Their wish is that over the decades, the Han Chinese would populate the territory and dominate the population of the territory, which means that the Uighur/Muslim ethnic population would eventually become a worthless and insignificant minority that poses little threat.

    Sadly, few Han Chinese took the bait. Many of them did not want to relocate to what they consider a god-forsaken frontier province. So the empty condos and half-finished empty ghost town cities is a national embarrassment for the Beijing government. (tons of pics online of empty Chinese ghost town cities from the frontier regions like Xinjian, Inner Mongolia, etc most of these cities are in the freakin middle of the desert, where no sane urbanite wanted to live in the first place)

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    How many more posts until we turn this into an ObamaCare thread!?
     
  9. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #9
    Except that it was also controlled by the Han dynasty, the Tang Dynasty and the Yuan (or Mongol) dynasty.

    And being ruled by the Chinese continuously since the mid 18th century makes it older than basically every other country on earth with I believe the exception of only Britain, France, Japan and Ethiopia?
     
  10. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #10
    Thank you for all of that information.


    I'm going to Godwin this puppy any second now.
     
  11. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #11
    That's what Hitler would want you to do.
     
  12. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #12
    Given there has been a mosque in Xi'An, the seat of Chinese civilisation, for over 1000 years its not as if China has any problem with muslims.

    Its the same as this canard that the Chinese government hates Tibetan culture, while conveniently forgetting that there is a Tibetan buddhist temple in central Beijing, which also survived the cultural revolution.
     
  13. Solomani macrumors 68030

    Solomani

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    #13
  14. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #14
    Bah, Jonny-come-latelies in the religious community.,

    And who could blame them, what with the rise of radicals within the Muslim faith.
     
  15. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #15
    :rolleyes:

    If they had guns instead of knives, casualties would have been in the hundreds.
     
  16. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #17
  17. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #18
    that's a mild way of putting it.........would this law be acceptable to you if it were implemented in your country?

     
  18. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #19
    I'm not sure I believe everything the New York Times has said either. The amount of misinformation in the Western media about China is pretty shocking to be honest.

    Overall the lack of general freedom of speech in China makes it virtually impossible to verify anything either way.
     
  19. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #20
    indeed, getting accurate information isn't always easy
     
  20. Mr. Retrofire macrumors 601

    Mr. Retrofire

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    #21
    This thread IS NOW the OFFICIAL ObamaCare thread!

    ;-)
     
  21. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #22
    Damn, I had all my money on the OFFICIAL GUN thread. :(
     
  22. zin macrumors 6502

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    #23
    It's mostly fluff by Western media that love to overstate the power of the East in relation to the West.

    In reality China is a very poor country that can only afford to take care of the senior representatives in the Communist Party. China is a recipient of international aid and its economy is export-reliant. It makes cheap stuff that any other country could make (albeit at a higher cost).

    They have very little power on the world stage because they like to stay in their own corner and act reserved with their intimidating technocratic men in suits. Their air force is barely at the technological level of most small European countries and their navy, although undergoing modernisation that will take decades, is so mismanaged that it can barely be labelled a green-water navy, forget blue-water capability.

    And given the Chinese Government's grip on media and control of (mis)information in the country, it's unlikely that the reasons behind this particular incident will be studied properly.
     
  23. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #24
    China is a "very poor country" with the worlds longest highway system, more high speed rail than the rest of the world put together, with the worlds most extensive metro system, and with education in Shanghai topping the international PISA rankings. And unlike other poor countries China doesn't have large noticeable slums (although it does have overcrowded flats). And it has a life expectancy of 75 which is only 4.5 years below that in the UK.

    And even in rural areas healthcare is improving and there is a rural pension scheme now.

    And with regards to exports Germany, one of the worlds most successful economies is export driven. Additionally I'm sure these days China is a net donor of aid - I'm not sure who it still receives aid from to be honest.

    And yet the amount of misinformation displayed by Western posters in this thread is also pretty shocking.
     
  24. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #25
    China is a fascinating country to visit, although some of the treatment of people there is pretty abhorrent.

    When I went it was clearly accelerating its change from communist state to one that allows elements of capitalism, but unfortunately that seems to favour the minority and ignore the majority as with most capitalist countries, however it was clear they were trying to keep some communist ethics in there.

    One thing that was very obvious was that they are very wary of what they say and do with westerners, I wanted to go to the propaganda museum in Shanghai and had to ask 4 cabs, before one would take me, and he still insisted on dropping me a few blocks away.

    The idea of the uninform in china seemed to be very strong also, if you had a uniform regardless of whether you were policeman or a street cleaner, you could do whatever you want. Policemen still beat people with sticks in the street there, so the whole bourgeiousie and prole idea is still very much alive there.

    In the cities the one child policy is very obvious, one thing that I didnt know before going was that farmers are allowed more than one child, the idea being that the children can work the land when they're old enough. But when I was there they were busily displacing 1.4 million people so they could flood the land for the three gorges damn project.

    I could go on so much more..... but wont unless people want to know things I might have noticed, one thing I will say is that every normal person (i.e. not an official) were so warm and lovely it was beyond belief, its a fascinating beautiful country thats socially ripped in two by a government that believes that there are a underclass who are there to serve the needs and desires of the upper class, and are shameless in their drive to keep that system alive.
     

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