MP 1,1-5,1 setting up a little home server and dont have enough gpu horsepower for even a vnc connection

[DLPc]

so i have an old 2010 mac pro 5,1 that is running well. its a single 3.33 x5680 and has a quadro 4000.

it is going to be a headless server stashed in a back room for me... serving files, plex, home assistant, and a few scripts that i have for random tasks. nothing too terribly intesive (in fact, i used to have the same setup on a 2011 mac mini until it died a terrible death. i decided i would rather have ample internal storage this time around, so i found a 5,1 mac pro)

the machine itself is working flawlessly. upgraded to mojave without issue... running the latest firmware (144.0.0.0). my ONLY issue and thing i need most, is the ability to remote into this machine somehow... either vnc, or a third party app (so far, ive tried splashtop, logmein, and something else i dont remember). running at a basic 1080p, it simply does not have enough gpu to cut it. i have tested, retested, tweaked, stripped down to the essentials, etc. i can connect in just fine, but it takes literal seconds to move the mouse, clicking anything is impossible, etc.

i have a rx 560 sitting here from another system, so i tried that card in the machine - all those issues went away. it was seamless. unfortunately, it was also buggy as hell, and would randomly reboot (which ive seen others complain about online - apparently power draw issues through the pcie port - but this was a cheapo biostar rx 560 so it may just be a crap card).

so... to remedy this, i can go one of a few routes im guessing:
1) i can add a second quadro 4000 to this machine... but im not sure that is going to help enough, or at all. but, i can pick those up cheap.
2) i can find a native supported gpu... and from the looks of it, my cheapest option is a 7950. that should be loads quicker (for what i need) than the q4000... but not sure it will be enough still, and they arent cheap (starting at $200 used which is a hefty gamble on a machine i only have $150 into at this point)
3) go massively balls to the wall with something i KNOW will work, like a macvidcards rx580 with apple efi... but at almost $400, i will have almost quadrupled what i will have in the machine, and all for just the ability to remotely connect into it... its massive overkill.

trying to not waste money needlessly, and most of my options are going to be used/refurb so no chance for trial and return if it doesnt work. any help, tips, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. im sure i cant be the only one trying to accomplish something like this.

 

[chabig]

the machine itself is working flawlessly. upgraded to mojave without issue... running the latest firmware (144.0.0.0). my ONLY issue and thing i need most, is the ability to remote into this machine somehow... either vnc, or a third party app (so far, ive tried splashtop, logmein, and something else i dont remember). running at a basic 1080p, it simply does not have enough gpu to cut it. i have tested, retested, tweaked, stripped down to the essentials, etc. i can connect in just fine, but it takes literal seconds to move the mouse, clicking anything is impossible, etc.

I seriously doubt that a GPU makes any difference. The main reason you see slow response is almost certainly because you have a slow network connection. You can mitigate this by setting the display to a small size and adjusting the VNC preferences to a lower bit depth. Mess around with settings and you should find an acceptable combination that works reasonably well.

And you don’t need a third party solution. Mojave has a built in VNC server. If you’re outside the home, you need a means to get back to your home IP address, though. I use Screens Connect on my home server, and the Screens app as a VNC viewer.

 

[DLPc]

it is not the network. both machines (host and remote) are wired. both have a solid stable connection. iperf showing 950-960mb connection. cant get it any better than that without moving to 10gbe.

im aware macos has vnc built it... but it is not always the most effecient in terms of mirroring. and.. i needed to troubleshoot, so i tried a ton of options. after trying all of the above, i stripped the drive and did a fresh install (thinking it was something with the install). no change.

i can say with certainty it is the gpu causing the issues, as the issues disappear when i throw in an rx 560. i can connect at 2k resolutions, and it is stutter free. unfortunately either this card, or the rx560 in general (as i have seen lots of others complain about it, even here) has issues. the machine will reboot on its own every other day or so, and aht reports pcie power issues. if that doesnt prove its the gpu, then i really have no idea what it is. but it isnt the network connection.

 

[m11rphy]

so i have an old 2010 mac pro 5,1 that is running well. its a single 3.33 x5680 and has a quadro 4000.

it is going to be a headless server stashed in a back room for me... serving files, plex, home assistant, and a few scripts that i have for random tasks. nothing too terribly intesive (in fact, i used to have the same setup on a 2011 mac mini until it died a terrible death. i decided i would rather have ample internal storage this time around, so i found a 5,1 mac pro)

the machine itself is working flawlessly. upgraded to mojave without issue... running the latest firmware (144.0.0.0). my ONLY issue and thing i need most, is the ability to remote into this machine somehow... either vnc, or a third party app (so far, ive tried splashtop, logmein, and something else i dont remember). running at a basic 1080p, it simply does not have enough gpu to cut it. i have tested, retested, tweaked, stripped down to the essentials, etc. i can connect in just fine, but it takes literal seconds to move the mouse, clicking anything is impossible, etc.

i have a rx 560 sitting here from another system, so i tried that card in the machine - all those issues went away. it was seamless. unfortunately, it was also buggy as hell, and would randomly reboot (which ive seen others complain about online - apparently power draw issues through the pcie port - but this was a cheapo biostar rx 560 so it may just be a crap card).

so... to remedy this, i can go one of a few routes im guessing:
1) i can add a second quadro 4000 to this machine... but im not sure that is going to help enough, or at all. but, i can pick those up cheap.
2) i can find a native supported gpu... and from the looks of it, my cheapest option is a 7950. that should be loads quicker (for what i need) than the q4000... but not sure it will be enough still, and they arent cheap (starting at $200 used which is a hefty gamble on a machine i only have $150 into at this point)
3) go massively balls to the wall with something i KNOW will work, like a macvidcards rx580 with apple efi... but at almost $400, i will have almost quadrupled what i will have in the machine, and all for just the ability to remotely connect into it... its massive overkill.

trying to not waste money needlessly, and most of my options are going to be used/refurb so no chance for trial and return if it doesnt work. any help, tips, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. im sure i cant be the only one trying to accomplish something like this.

I don't know if this helps at all, but I'm currently running a running a 4.1 upgraded to 5.1 and a MSI RX560 (as recommended by Apple). I use the Share Screen option via finder to remote into it from my iMac / Macbook and I have had any issues. I got the card from Amazon for £130

 

[DLPc]

I don't know if this helps at all, but I'm currently running a running a 4.1 upgraded to 5.1 and a MSI RX560 (as recommended by Apple). I use the Share Screen option via finder to remote into it from my iMac / Macbook and I have had any issues. I got the card from Amazon for £130

yeah, im starting to think it is just this cheap ass biostar rx 560 i have. but, ive seen enough threads of people supposedly with teh msi rx 560 that have the same issues i experienced (random reboot, and the same error in apple hardware test). when i pull that card, aht runs without errors and i never experience an issue.

i may try to track down the msi rx 560 on ebay or something... they look fairly cheap. worth a $40 try.

 

[tomsmods]

When you run headless on recent minis you add an adapter to init the video card for faster remote access

 

[DLPc]

When you run headless on recent minis you add an adapter to init the video card for faster remote access

yes, i had one.

the current mac pro is not yet headless... i have it hooked up to a 1080p display so i can get things setup on the machine before it goes upstairs into the back room.

 

[TheIguana]

Why do you require a graphics card with boot screen support? You can get an RX580 far cheaper than MVCs price, alas without a boot screen. Perhaps you have a use case for it, but most of us are doing just fine without.

Ie: https://www.amazon.com/Sapphire-11265-05-20G-Backplate-Graphics-Graphic/dp/B06ZZ6FMF8

 

[DLPc]

Why do you require a graphics card with boot screen support? You can get an RX580 far cheaper than MVCs price, alas without a boot screen. Perhaps you have a use case for it, but most of us are doing just fine without.

Ie: https://www.amazon.com/Sapphire-11265-05-20G-Backplate-Graphics-Graphic/dp/B06ZZ6FMF8

because this is about to be a 10 year old computer... and all things break eventually. when they do, i need to be able to diagnose what is going on via aht or asd. i also tinker quite a bit with other systems, and a few times per year, will throw different drives in the machine to test things. i need to be able to see pre-boot config to select boot options.

yes, for the average person, they rarely if ever need it. i unfortunately do need it though.

 

[m11rphy]

yeah, im starting to think it is just this cheap ass biostar rx 560 i have. but, ive seen enough threads of people supposedly with teh msi rx 560 that have the same issues i experienced (random reboot, and the same error in apple hardware test). when i pull that card, aht runs without errors and i never experience an issue.

i may try to track down the msi rx 560 on ebay or something... they look fairly cheap. worth a $40 try.

Ignore everything I said I had a kernel panic last night, doing some reading im not sure if its the GPU or the BootROM upgrade

 

[tsialex]

so i have an old 2010 mac pro 5,1 that is running well. its a single 3.33 x5680 and has a quadro 4000.

it is going to be a headless server stashed in a back room for me... serving files, plex, home assistant, and a few scripts that i have for random tasks. nothing too terribly intesive (in fact, i used to have the same setup on a 2011 mac mini until it died a terrible death. i decided i would rather have ample internal storage this time around, so i found a 5,1 mac pro)

the machine itself is working flawlessly. upgraded to mojave without issue... running the latest firmware (144.0.0.0). my ONLY issue and thing i need most, is the ability to remote into this machine somehow... either vnc, or a third party app (so far, ive tried splashtop, logmein, and something else i dont remember). running at a basic 1080p, it simply does not have enough gpu to cut it. i have tested, retested, tweaked, stripped down to the essentials, etc. i can connect in just fine, but it takes literal seconds to move the mouse, clicking anything is impossible, etc.

i have a rx 560 sitting here from another system, so i tried that card in the machine - all those issues went away. it was seamless. unfortunately, it was also buggy as hell, and would randomly reboot (which ive seen others complain about online - apparently power draw issues through the pcie port - but this was a cheapo biostar rx 560 so it may just be a crap card).

so... to remedy this, i can go one of a few routes im guessing:
1) i can add a second quadro 4000 to this machine... but im not sure that is going to help enough, or at all. but, i can pick those up cheap.
2) i can find a native supported gpu... and from the looks of it, my cheapest option is a 7950. that should be loads quicker (for what i need) than the q4000... but not sure it will be enough still, and they arent cheap (starting at $200 used which is a hefty gamble on a machine i only have $150 into at this point)
3) go massively balls to the wall with something i KNOW will work, like a macvidcards rx580 with apple efi... but at almost $400, i will have almost quadrupled what i will have in the machine, and all for just the ability to remotely connect into it... its massive overkill.

trying to not waste money needlessly, and most of my options are going to be used/refurb so no chance for trial and return if it doesnt work. any help, tips, or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. im sure i cant be the only one trying to accomplish something like this.

Macs don't activate GPU acceleration at all when headless, connect a display to your Mac Pro, then try to access it remotely. If now you have the expected remote connection performance, buy a headless dongle. Read more:

An HDMI adapter for a headless Mac mini
Build a Dummy Dongle for a headless Mac mini

 

[Macschrauber]

What system do u run ?
Ist that Quadro a metal capable Kepler k4000 ?

 

[tsialex]

What system do u run ?
Ist that Quadro a metal capable Kepler k4000 ?

Yes, this too.

A Quadro 4000 (Fermi) is only supported up to High Sierra and then is totally ignored by Mojave while a Quadro K4000 (Kepler) is supported from 10.8.3 up to Catalina.

 

[DLPc]

it is NOT headless currently. i am still trying to troubleshoot and have it setup on a test bench right now. when i do move it into place eventually, i have a headless hdmi plug to alleviate that issue (but again, havent made it that far yet)

from the looks of it, its simply a quadro 4000... however, it installed mojave without issue. i assume that apple wouldnt even allow me to install if the gpu wasnt capable of running, would it?
https://imgur.com/MyAthDc

(ignore the resolution... i have moved it from its native, all the way down to 800x600 and had the same issues)

 

[tsialex]

it is NOT headless currently. i am still trying to troubleshoot and have it setup on a test bench right now. when i do move it into place eventually, i have a headless hdmi plug to alleviate that issue (but again, havent made it that far yet)

from the looks of it, its simply a quadro 4000... however, it installed mojave without issue. i assume that apple wouldnt even allow me to install if the gpu wasnt capable of running, would it?
https://imgur.com/MyAthDc

(ignore the resolution... i have moved it from its native, all the way down to 800x600 and had the same issues)

The card from the screenshot is a Fermi one. It's a Quadro 4000 Mac Edition or a flashed one?

If it's is, it's a special case since the card have EFI driver support and Mojave video drivers have the device IDs for some of the Fermi cards in the drivers for some strange motive that no one understood yet, but don't have any acceleration support after Mojave is working.

Install High Sierra and test again, it's the last macOS release that correctly works with your GPU.

 

[DLPc]

That card is a Fermi one. It's a Quadro 4000 Mac Edition or a flashed one?

If it's is, it's a special case since the card have EFI driver support and Mojave video drivers have the ID for some of the Fermi cards in the drivers for some strange motive that no one understood yet, but don't have any acceleration support after Mojave is working.

Install High Sierra and test again.

odd. when i got the machine, nothing had been done to it (they didnt even bother stripping the old install... was still sitting on mavericks without any updates. so i doubt the previous owner did ANYTHING to flash the card.

i installed a new ssd and my own drives for storage, and did a fresh install. i thought high sierra was the newest it would run, so i installed and set that up. i had the same issues with vnc on high sierra.

in looking around for a solution, i noticed mojave was available, so i figured i would try that. it upgraded after the firmware update, and has been running fine since (with the exception of my remote issues).

 

[tsialex]

odd. when i got the machine, nothing had been done to it (they didnt even bother stripping the old install... was still sitting on mavericks without any updates. so i doubt the previous owner did ANYTHING to flash the card.

i installed a new ssd and my own drives for storage, and did a fresh install. i thought high sierra was the newest it would run, so i installed and set that up. i had the same issues with vnc on high sierra.

in looking around for a solution, i noticed mojave was available, so i figured i would try that. it upgraded after the firmware update, and has been running fine since (with the exception of my remote issues).

You have pre-boot configuration support? Boot screens/Boot Picker/Single user support?

 

[DLPc]

oh... and it is a quadro 4000 mac edition (original card that came with the system)
[doublepost=1566145223][/doublepost]

You have pre-boot configuration support? Boot screens/Boot Picker/Single user support?

yes... everything works flawlessly outside of remote connections. even at 2k resolutions, it runs well.

 

[tsialex]

oh... and it is a quadro 4000 mac edition (original card that came with the system)

So, it's an EFI card and explains why you can install but you don't have acceleration. High Sierra is the last macOS release that works correctly.

 

[DLPc]

So, it's an EFI card and explains why you can install but you don't have acceleration. High Sierra is the last macOS release that works correctly.

very odd. so apple allows a non-working card to upgrade and just does so without any hardware acceleration at all. seems like a bug in majove then.

glad i didnt go with another q4000.

guess i'll just have to stick with the rx 560 i have coming, and then manually disassemble the system every time i want to get into pre-boot. thats a major pain the ass, but its either that, or spend hundreds.

 

[Macschrauber]

the line in Bold is missing, no metal support, here's mine:

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680:
Chipset Model: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680
Type: GPU
Bus: PCIe
Slot: Slot-1
PCIe Lane Width: x16
VRAM (Total): 4 GB
Vendor: NVIDIA (0x10de)
Device ID: 0x1180
Revision ID: 0x00a2
ROM Revision: 3731
Metal: Supported, feature set macOS GPUFamily1 v4
Displays:
Apple Cinema HD Display:

 

[tsialex]

very odd. so apple allows a non-working card to upgrade and just does so without any hardware acceleration at all. seems like a bug in majove then.

glad i didnt go with another q4000.

guess i'll just have to stick with the rx 560 i have coming, and then manually disassemble the system every time i want to get into pre-boot. thats a major pain the ass, but its either that, or spend hundreds.

Mojave support for NVIDIA GPUs is half baked, you can't even clean install Mojave from a createinstallmedia USB stick with a eVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, only from macOS to another drive.

 

[Macschrauber]

a GTX680 is on option, easy flashing and affordable.

 

[DLPc]

a GTX680 is on option, easy flashing and affordable.

not really. just a quick glance around online... if i get one new (there are a few) its a few hundred. used they are going for $170+. but... that is an option i hadnt considered. might think about it.

 

[Macschrauber]

Take your time, I got my 4Gb for around 80 bucks.