Short List of Why Apple Made the Right Decision Pioneering USB-C

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by MICHAELSD, Nov 23, 2016.

  1. MICHAELSD, Nov 23, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016

    MICHAELSD macrumors 68040

    MICHAELSD

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    #1
    1. Multi-functional: any USB-C port can be used for data, power, or driving a display.
    2. In the future (when adapters are no longer necessary), we will be using a USB-C cable as the standard for all of the above. Rather than having multiple types of ports on a device all serving different purposes, there will be one standard.
    3. Interchangeability of ports.
    4. Data speeds.
    5. A single USB-C port could drive a display, become a hub for multiple USB devices, and power the MacBook Pro simultaneously essentially leading us into a 1-2 port future.
    (I do think Apple could've left MagSafe in though. Would it be that difficult to magnetize at least one port and develop a proprietary USB-C connector?)
     
  2. jimthing macrumors 6502a

    jimthing

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    #2
    Yes to all, except the MagSafe...

    Because it gives users the CHOICE. Many don't want or like MagSafe (eg. pundit Andy Ihnatko, for one), as in some situations it can be a pain in the backside as much as it can be a saviour in others. This way, many versions can be designed and made by third parties, to fit different cables lengths/types, should users want to use one, or not.
    I'm pro choice, so are most people on peripherals, so this really is a win/win for everyone.
     
  3. Altis macrumors 68020

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    #3
    I don't think anyone dislikes USB-C or TB3.

    It's more that they're rare to come across still, so ditching all other ports seems a tad soon. Left side could have been 2 USB/TB3 and right-side 2 USB-A 3.0 and it'd probably have been better received. Ready for the future, gets the job done in the present.

    It doesn't help much that it seems there are some incompatibilities within the USB-C protocol and implementation itself at the moment.
     
  4. Mr. Bean macrumors member

    Mr. Bean

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    #4
    Simplicity was Jobs' vision for computing devices, so I think that by turning all the ports into "one size fits all" is Apple's way of following this vision.

    As for whether they should have left at least one legacy port in there to make the transition easier, I think what they've done is correct - short term pain for long term gain. Let's imagine that they have left one legacy port in there. People will continue to use it because they can. Why change if I can continue using what I already have? Furthermore, other third-party companies that produce monitors or external hard drives might not be so inclined to adopt the new technology because they do not know the level of demand existing in the market due to the ambiguity. If they produce USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 devices but the demand is not there since people can still use legacy ports, that might spell trouble for the company. What they'll usually do in this case is to drag their feet and wait until another company take the plunge to test the water. Yet if nobody want to go first, you'll end up with something similar to the bystander effect.

    On the other hand, there won't be many choices of USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 devices for consumers, so they won't be using it and continue to use legacy ports. Basically you might end up with a chicken and egg situation - companies won't produce the device because consumers might not buy/use them, yet consumers cannot use the technology because not many are available.

    With the current situation, what Apple has done is using its massive influence to drag everybody (kicking and screaming) into the future. Early adopters will have to deal with dongles/adapters, but the ports should become a new standard in a not-so-distant future.

    The only issue I have with this decision is the incompatibility of the i-devices with the new MBPs right out of the box. I'm guessing if the new MBPs were released before the iPhone 7 this year, then that might not be the case. They could have included a lightning-to-USB-C cable with the new MBPs, but they probably figured not all MBPs purchaser are using an i-device. It's a cheap (nickel and dime) move which I believe has tarnished a largely good business decision.
     
  5. bill-p, Nov 23, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016

    bill-p macrumors 68000

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    #5
    1) Multi-functional: agreed, it's useful to have one port that can do everything.
    2) In the future: disagreed. Too many legacy devices right now needing every other port. Now is a BAD time to go USB-C-only because it's only 1% of the market. And I am probably being generous.
    3) Interchangeability: we could do that with the old USB as well, which was on both sides of the last MacBook as well. So disagree.
    4) Data speeds: agreed, but nothing external right now that supports Mac has that kind of speed, or please feel free to name them if you can.
    5) You're just repeating point 1.

    I think what Apple has done is ARROGANT, and INCORRECT! Defending them is IGNORANT!

    Sorry, gotta write that out in caps because I think some of you are missing the point. The reason legacy ports are kept around is simple: don't change what ain't broken.

    For instance, SD cards work as a mobile storage solution, and it has kept improving up until now. You can even get some that you can insert almost completely flush into the body of an older MacBook Pro to expand internal storage. Guess what? You can no longer do that with the new MacBook Pro. And the storage on the new MacBook Pro is now soldered on. What if you need more storage in your MacBook in the future? Well, tough luck. You have to buy a new computer altogether. That is, if Apple will even allow more storage than the maximum option right now, rather than writing it off as "affecting battery life". See what I did there?

    Will the ports become a new standard in the near future? I strongly disagree. Why? Because what ain't broke won't be fixed.

    It's that simple. No matter how influential Apple really is, taking away ports and options is just shooting themselves in the foot.

    Has Apple done this in the past? Yes. Look at their 30-pin devices. Look at Thunderbolt. Look at Firewire. Were they successful?

    So I think, in the near future, what will most likely happen is that the rest of the world will continue to support legacy devices, while Apple continues on and has to rely on dongles + "will-work-on-Macs-as-well" devices that have an adapter to connect to USB-C. And Apple may be forced to modify USB-C specs to bring back certain features (a MagSafe-capable USB-C port style, maybe?). By the end of it all, they would have likely regressed back to the state they were in right before Steve Jobs introduced the iPod... because they are quickly isolating themselves from the rest of the world in many ways.

    Apple was successful with the MacBooks when they joined hands with Intel and made the MacBooks compatible with x86 softwares from other platforms. That's when they were working with the rest of the world.

    Going USB-C-only is a dangerous step in the opposite direction.
     
  6. Ries macrumors 68000

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    #6
    You know, you can have 4 USB-C AND a USB-A,SDcard,HDMI and Magsafe port. Stop defending Apple nickel and diming.
     
  7. MICHAELSD thread starter macrumors 68040

    MICHAELSD

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    #7
    Point 1 is that any USB-C port can be used for any function.

    Point 5 is how all of those functions can now be done simultaneously through a single port.

    Fair point on the SD card, but I think as far as SD cards go we're moving towards cameras that sync over USB-C or wirelessly.

    Thankfully with internal storage we're moving towards the point where you only need the OS and core apps on the internal drive, though I think the base model should have been bumped to 512GB as it is still nice to store as much on the laptop itself as possible. In this day and age if you need expanded memory you use a cloud service or an external drive.
     
  8. bxsonic macrumors member

    bxsonic

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    #8
    Out of all the standards that Apple has tried to push down our throats over the years - Lightning, Firewire, Thunderbolt, etc, this is literally the best and most promising one so far. This is Apple falling in line to develop a universal standard with the rest of the industry. Isn't USB C basically the future of USB?

    Is it too early to go all in on USB C? Probably. But I really can't think of when such a transition will not generate short term inconvenience/ pain. Are people expecting Apple to drop each legacy port one by one over a period of 10 years or something? For reference, my work 1-year old HP Laptop still has a freaking VGA port on it just so that we can use the outdated projectors throughout the office. With the way the industry is moving (snail pace), I fully expect to still be using VGA in the office 10 years from now. Seems like that's exactly what some people here want
     
  9. MICHAELSD thread starter macrumors 68040

    MICHAELSD

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    #9
    Doubt it's nickel-and-diming. A large part of it is Apple figuring this is what they need to get the MacBook Pro .3mm thinner :p.
     
  10. Mr. Bean macrumors member

    Mr. Bean

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    #10
    The world will transition to USB-C sooner or later. It's not a new port that Apple invented. It's something that Apple has agreed to comply with in order to be a part of the universal standard. They just happen to want to leap into it much faster/sooner/more aggressive than others.
     
  11. thesaint024 macrumors 65816

    thesaint024

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    #11
    Surprising how much negativity there is about this. It was a bold choice that many think is visionary. I see the future, and I like it. Just because everyone does something now, doesn't mean it's what you should do. That's PC clone mentality. The consumers will vote with their wallets. And as I've noted elsewhere, Apple could GAF if you buy this MBP or not, or an extra two of their dongles. That's small minded and short term thinking. They didn't get to their market cap by following the lead of others and making safe choices your mom would make. Their edge is design and leading the way in PC's. They can't compete with PC clones as a commodity.

    It's funny how all of the bitching about past transitions no longer exist. Do you really miss loading dvd's and cd's into your optical drive? The problem hasn't changed and the technology to allow it existed back then. People just couldn't cope with a change in behavior, even if it was to their benefit. You all need to be inspired again. Stop falling back to the lazy thinking of "but it works now!" Lot's of things work now, and a lot of things still suck.
     
  12. Lobwedgephil macrumors 68040

    Lobwedgephil

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    #12
    Exactly, they aren't going proprietary anymore. USB C has been decided as the future, and Apple is all in, yes it sucks now, but in 4 years everything will be USB C. Way different then Apple pushing their own tech in the past.
     
  13. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan macrumors 68040

    SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

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    #13
    Pioneering?? Had Thunderbolt 3 on my PC for a year.
     
  14. killawat macrumors 65816

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    #14
    I know what you're implying but , Apple did indeed help to invent USB-C .

    http://www.cultofmac.com/315671/it-turns-out-apple-invented-usb-c/

    At the moment a TB3 host (not just Mac, but ANY host with TB3 plus an appropriately wired video) can support ANYTHING. Into my Mac I can plug in

    USB 1.1
    USB 2.0
    USB 3.0
    Firewire 400
    Firewire 800
    DVI
    VGA
    HDMI
    Displayport
    Ethernet (via USB, USB-C or TB)
    PCI Express (via TB)
    Power (of course)

    and if you want to go retro
    PS2/Serial via USB-A

    You see that it's "not there" but I see it as it's "there if I want it". Joe up the street demands that the 2016 MacBook Pro have Firewire 400, but 99% of customers don't need that function. Still, Joe up the street has the option for FW400 while the rest of us are using 10 GBe ethernet adapters and 5k displays on the same port. And when we're using neither, we're left with an extremely thin and sleek machine. Fixed function ports are nice and convenient but USB-C provides extreme flexibility.
     
  15. MarsViolet macrumors 6502

    MarsViolet

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    #15
    There are about thirty dongles which laugh at the "one size fits all" proposition.
     
  16. thesaint024 macrumors 65816

    thesaint024

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    #16
    Really? Your PC has TB3 because Apple pushed the usb-c on the MB12 and TB wanted on that train and made TB3 compatible. It was a non-secret that Apple would be going hard and heavy on usb-c. Apple pushed the usb-c/TB3 standards forward. Your PC manufacturer "X" is following Apple's lead per usual.
     
  17. killawat macrumors 65816

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    #17
    ...If Apple wanted to push TB3 major league it would've been on the 2015 MacBook. It wasn't, and still isn't on the MacBook or the Mac Pro. Or the iMac back in 2015. It was very feasible back then because PC manufacturers already had it, they could've introduced one or two with the iMac update . Apple was the brainchild behind TB and USB-C, yes, but they were way, WAY too late to bring TB3 to the Mac.
     
  18. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan macrumors 68040

    SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

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    #18
    Lol. You're hallucinating. Intel came up to the Alpine Ridge chipset and it has been available in PCs since last year. And I haven't needed any dongles because my motherboard has every port type I need.
     
  19. leman macrumors 604

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    #19
    Well, it is a known fact that Thunderbolt was designed by Intel and Apple jointly (with Apple being the initial trademark holder), and there are some heavy rumours in the industry that USB-C is in fact Apple's brainchild. Which would make a lot of sense, because its Apple who more then anyone else were interested in a compact, universal connector.

    In the meantime, there is no doubt that USB-C is the future of connectivity for years to come and support for it is gaining very rapidly. Apple's move was aggressive and visionary, as usual. Right now, we are in a transition pious, which of course comes with some confusion and inconvenience, but few years down the line people will complain about all those useless USB-A ports they are still having on their computers because the manufacturers wanted to be 'careful'.

    Thats what I really like about Apple as a tech company. They have a vision and they take risks to execute it. And that vision is a very detailed one, which involves different relevant aspects of computing. Miscosoft is probably the only other innovative hardware company right now, but their vision seems to be restricted to 'lets make it a tablet hybrid'
     
  20. SoyCapitanSoyCapitan macrumors 68040

    SoyCapitanSoyCapitan

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    #20
    We aren't living in 2008 and there is zero point talking about Lightpeak. Talk about now and who is implementing the tech properly. Apple is not only behind but yet again they are locking down what they think should be allowable or not (eGPU support, etc). End to end control. Sandbox. Screw your upgrades. Buy this dongle. Fill the earth with more plastic redundant cables.
     
  21. borgusio macrumors regular

    borgusio

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    #21
    What I do not understand is why they did not transfer the magnetic stuff from the laptop to the charger. I mean... That would be proprietary, can do a lot of money with broken cables as Apple loves to and on top of that you could still charge the laptop with a standard usb-c charger.
     
  22. Mr. Bean macrumors member

    Mr. Bean

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    #22
    Thank you for the correction.

    Indeed the point I was trying to make is that Apple is not trying to force its users on to some proprietary port that only they have access to, but instead, adopting a universal standard for the future.
     
  23. MH01 macrumors G4

    MH01

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    #23
    I am fine with USB-C would have liked magsafe and one USB-A port though
     
  24. Mr. Bean macrumors member

    Mr. Bean

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    #24
    Funny how you've conveniently cut out the rest of my statement there to justify your argument against dongles.
     
  25. Queen6 macrumors 603

    Queen6

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    #25
    Over a year and half of professional use globally (heavy engineering) with a Retina MacBook, have yet to see a single peripheral that can natively connect to the rMB USB C port. We are still several years, if not more from serious adoption of USB C, dongles & adapters are simply more to manage, more to loose, if we were all brutally honest nobody wants them.

    If you control your "computing" environment USB C will bring benefit, if not it can be more trouble than it`s worth right now, unless you can take advantage of TB-3`s bandwidth. This is exactly why many do not want a computing solution that relies solely on dongles etc. for connectivity.

    Q-6
     

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