Should Apple CEO...come out against Nazi's and KKK?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Phil in ocala, Aug 14, 2017.

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  1. Phil in ocala macrumors 6502a

    Phil in ocala

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    #1
    CEO of Apple so far today...has been silent about this issue......there are Neo-Nazi's probably in every state in the Union...especially in La....David Duke was the Republican Candidate for US Senate from La.....Idaho has many NeoNazi's too.....So ...Cook is not saying anything?
     
  2. noisycats macrumors 6502a

    noisycats

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    #2
    Why should he? What's the direct tie in? Otherwise it would just look like grandstanding.
     
  3. Beachguy macrumors 6502a

    Beachguy

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    #3
    He should come out against Microsoft products. And keep his mouth shut about social policy and politics.
     
  4. ejb190 macrumors 65816

    ejb190

    #4
    By officially making a statement, even a negative one, you are giving recognition, and sometimes legitimacy, to the very people you are condemning. Sometime you are better off not saying anything.

    Second, people in the position of leadership have to be careful that a personal position is not misconstrued as a position statement for the organization they lead. Tim Cook has (IMO) treaded this line very closely a couple of times, not being explicit about where Apple ends and Tim starts, especially early on as CEO.
     
  5. BeefCake 15 macrumors 65816

    BeefCake 15

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    #5
    LOL POTUS doesn't even wanna talk about it... you want the CEO of Apple to address it? Not his job.
     
  6. StarShot macrumors 6502a

    StarShot

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    #6
    If Cook did come out, how would the world change? More politilcal crap on a tech site devoted to Apple products. Take it over to Huffingting Post...
     
  7. BittenApple macrumors 6502a

    BittenApple

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  8. gnasher729 macrumors P6

    gnasher729

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    #8
    In the past, Tim Cook has spoken out _for_ people, not _against_ people.

    And he doesn't just speak out his opinion, he speaks out when he thinks he can influence thinks in a positive way. Do you think any neo nazi would be positively influenced by him?
     
  9. Phil in ocala thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Phil in ocala

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    #9
    ________________
    So I guess the murder in Virginia and the violence is just "fake news"?
    --- Post Merged, Aug 14, 2017 ---
    __________
    Its understood by most people in business that you do NOT trash your competitor anywhere....I thought you knew.
     
  10. Pakaku macrumors 68000

    Pakaku

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    #10
    I think it's safe to assume they're not happy about it. I suppose Tim should also confess he breathes air and gets his 8 glasses of water every day?
     
  11. Plutonius macrumors 604

    Plutonius

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    #11
    He probably should since he comments on every other SJW issue.

    Shouldn't this be in the PRSI ?
     
  12. Spectrum macrumors 6502a

    Spectrum

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    #12
    I'm surprised he hasn't. Is Apple/Tim still a member of those Trump advisory councils? Everyone else seems to be resigning.
     
  13. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #13
    Tim talks when it effects his business, this doesn't effect his business
     
  14. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #14
    The Neo Nazi Party has existed for a long time. It's only getting press because the media lens in magnifying it.



    The Blues Brothers, strangely ahead of its time.
     
  15. Gutwrench Contributor

    Gutwrench

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    #15
    I've noticed @LizKat has been conspicuously quiet in not coming out against OED dropping words like cassette player, threequel, video jockey, and millennium bug to make room for noob, nurdle, jeggings, and mankini!! :mad:
     
  16. Beachguy macrumors 6502a

    Beachguy

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    #16

    It's also understood by most people in business that you don't take controversial stands on divisive things. That doesn't stop him.

    That said, competition involves promoting your products over your competitors. Trashing your competitors is de rigueur, don't you know?
    --- Post Merged, Aug 15, 2017 ---
    Please, be accurate. In 1990, no Republicans ran against the Democrats. The GOP actually endorsed a state senator from NOLA as opposed to Duke. Duke was trounced by the Democrat. In 1996 and 2016, he ran for US Senate and was trounced by his Republican competition. At no time was he supported by the Louisiana GOP. Your effort to malign Louisiana Republicans is dishonest.

    Now, stop making me defend Louisiana- I can't stand the damned place.
     
  17. SusanK macrumors 68000

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    #17
    Cook is busy running Apple. That's his job.
     
  18. jdechko macrumors 68040

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    #18
    https://twitter.com/tim_cook/status/897128485843382277

    Posted 8/14 at 9:11am.

    Tim Cook, acting as CEO of Apple, he has no responsibility to say anything. However, Tim Cook, the person, has shown himself to have deep convictions about this sort of thing. It's in his nature to comment.
     
  19. jdillings macrumors 68000

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    #19
    Actually the opposite. He only speaks up when he knows it won't hurt his business. He has never publicly came out against the treatment of women and gays in the Middle East or Asia where his company does business.
     
  20. daflake macrumors 6502a

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    #20
    Then why should a businessman come out to say something about politics? No, just focus on Apple and make products, that is his job. He is not a world leader.
     
  21. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #21
    I see what you're saying, and agree and disagree with it. Sometimes you are better off not saying anything about it, because you don't want to give them recognition...

    .. but also by not saying anything about it, you implicitly condone their actions. That actually is worse than saying something about it. In this case, you'd want your brand and your reputation on the right side of the cause, and by not saying anything, you run the risk of being on the wrong side of it.

    Case in point: The owners of Top Dog in San Francisco. If they had said nothing about what happened, they would be condoning the actions taken by one of their employees, who was there participating in the protest, with the white supremacists. Think of how bad that would look for their restaurant, and the patrons eating at their restaurant. Not a good look for any of them.

    So they made the stand and said something about it. Did it give the supremacists recognition? Yes. They fired their employee. Again, a point where saying nothing would cause more damage than saying something.

    Another case in point: Tiki. There is a picture from Tiki somewhere in one of the threads here with a statement saying that their torches are to be used for having a good time with friends and families of all races, creeds and colors, not for supremacists marching in protest because they feel they are being oppressed.

    Again, saying nothing meant a bigger damage to their brand. And in today's age, reputations are hard fought to be won, but sure as hell easy to lose.

    BL.
     
  22. Scepticalscribe, Aug 16, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #22
    Yes, they should.

    And the reason is nothing to do with overseas markets, or profits.

    Rather, it is that Apple is an American company (yes, we know about stuff made in China, and deplorable labour conditions, material for a different discussion), rooted in American culture, and one that could only have developed from a precise set of conditions prevailing in the US at that time.

    And precisely because it is an American company, rooted in American culture, it should condemn the forms of mutant racism that are also peculiarly American.

    Racism has taken a peculiar and profoundly ugly form in the US which dates from the foundation of the state, - a state founded on the revolutionary and explosive idea that "all men are created equal" but insisted - with a double standard that ate away at the core philosophical foundation of the state and exposed its core contradictions when it exploded in civil war - that some are created so unequal that their destiny by dint of their birth was slavery.

    This very contradiction gave rise to a civil war 80 years later, - when a state constructed on feudal principles - which could not have existed economically without slavery which became its philosophical and political raison d'être insisted on exporting its egregious economic and philosophical model further west - tearing the country apart, because it exposed the fundamental contradictions of the state.

    You cannot have a state founded on principles which state that all men are equal - a marked departure from most political thought elsewhere on the planet at the time, which was why it was so revolutionary - and then tolerate and facilitate the creation in a part of your country of an economy, a society, and a polity based on slavery, on the explicitly stated inequality of man.

    Precisely because of the specific form that the history of slavery and oppression has taken in the US, precisely because division in the US was so marked by race (while augmented by social class - after all, it is telling that possibly the worst insult you can throw at a Caucasian male is the expression "white trash" - an insult that is profoundly racially charged while signalling that the person it is addressed to is a clown who has failed to take advantage of his material and racial advantages) - matters to do with race carry an especially charged - and uniquely ugly - frisson in the US.

    Thus, expressions of racism need to be challenged and called out, whoever and wherever they appear.

    And, therefore, to my mind, because he is an American, and his company is a triumph as an example of American innovation, rooted in American values and culture - the positive ones - it is incumbent upon Mr Cook to make his views clear on this matter, and challenge the ugly underside of US culture, which very often takes a profoundly racist form.
     
  23. ejb190, Aug 16, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017

    ejb190 macrumors 65816

    ejb190

    #23
    A company taking sides on some of these issues really doesn't help. Did Tiki really need to make that statement? Did Dodge come out and say they don't support the use of their cars to run down protesters? Did Cannon or Nikon need to say that the use of their cameras to capture images of a protest does not imply their support of such actions?

    I had a much longer post here, but here's the jest of it: The US Constitution ensures freedom of speech. It is perfectly legal to have an opinion, even an unpopular one. I see a worrisome shift that some people are moving into a "Freedom from being offended" - I don't like your opinion, so you can't have it. I agree that racism is an ugly thing, but silencing someone is a violation of that individual's rights. And this leads into a slippery slope of silencing other things that are disagreed with: politics, religion, what timezone Indiana should be in (really - timezones have divided a few families around here).

    I'm convinced that anger is often fear in disguise. Once we come to terms with that, then we can start discussing what we are afraid of and what to do about it. I am also of the opinion that if you aren't adding anything to the conversation, then quit adding to the noise. All these "We stand with..." statements do nothing more than take sides and put up walls. What is a Neo-Nazi afraid of? What are the Counter-protesters afraid of? You start answering those questions and we'll be getting somewhere.
     
  24. chiefsilverback macrumors 6502

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    #24
    As an openly gay man I don't think Tim Cook needs to clarify his views on NeoNazis!
     

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