Should Apple have waited for ML's release to release the rMBP?

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by pgiguere1, Jul 8, 2012.

  1. pgiguere1 macrumors 68020

    pgiguere1

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    #1
    There's something cool about Apple announcing a new product and saying "Shipping today" on stage right after, but I'm wondering if this time it was the right thing to do with the rMBP for a couple of reasons:

    1. Availability. While it's nice to have a product ship the day it's announced, what really matters is the time we actually receive it and begin actually using it. For a lot of us, that's nowhere near the announcement date. The shipping estimate slipped to 2-3 weeks only hours after the announcement, to later slip to 3-4 weeks and some BTOs with the 768GB SSD option had even worse delays. There's no doubt that releasing the rMBP a month and a half later would have allowed to produce more of them and have faster delivery, not to mention some situations where people received other items under their rMBP's AppleCare before thus reducing the covering period of their rMBP to slightly before 1 year. Having people receive their laptops at different dates also has an effect of reducing the hype around the release.

    2. Scrolling performance issues. People make a big deal about this. They don't expect such an expensive computer to have that kind of issue. It's known that Mountain Lion will improve scrolling performance by using Core Animation, but reviews were mostly made with Lion and a lot of them won't be updated to mention the improvements made with Mountain Lion. Even if Mountain Lion completely fixes this, people will still be reading about those issues and fear they're still be there.

    3. Retina-enabled third-party applications. Developers had no time to prepare Retina-enabled apps since most didn't know in advance. 1 month and a half between the announcement and release would have been enough for a lot of developers to make such an upgrade, and while most apps obviously won't support Retina for a while, at least some very popular ones like Chrome could have had a stable release before the launch of the rMBP. It's weird that a lot of people use the Canary build as their primary browser, which is unstable at times. Some professional applications like Photoshop could also have been updated, or at least closer to the release of an update.

    4. No OS upgrade process. Of course, I know the upgrade to Mountain Lion will be free and as easy as it can get, but it will still take some time and make some people stress about problems in the process or applications becoming incompatible. Even if everything went perfectly and no laptop were bricked in the process, you still don't get the perfect "out of box experience" that Apple touts about. Waiting for Mountain Lion would have allowed to get improved software directly out of the box. Anandtech's review mentioned that while the rMBP received a bronze Editor’s Choice award, it could have gotten a silver one if Mountain Lion and more Retina-enabled apps were ready at launch. I'm sure other people feel the same.

    5. Accessory availability. There could have been third-party cases directly at launch, the Thunderbolt to FireWire would have been ready and other accessories like locks, screen protectors and such would have been all ready for launch. Some people depend on FireWire and can't upgrade without the adapter being released and if you're going to move your laptop around, you probably want to protect it and not have to buy a temporary 15" legacy MBP case that you will replace a month later because you find it too loose.

    In my opinion Apple did the wrong choice by releasing the rMBP that soon and I feel that people would have felt more satisfied with their computer at launch if they had decided to wait a bit longer. Releasing your computer the day it's announced is cool in theory, but it looks like Apple weren't prepared enough for such a fast release.

    As consumers, do you think you would have been more satisfied if Apple announced the rMBP at WWDC, yet started shipping it only when Mountain Lion is released, considering it would have had faster shipping times and better store availability, less performance issues, more Retina-enabled applications, no OS upgrade process and more accessories at launch?
     
  2. SDAVE macrumors 68040

    SDAVE

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    #2
    No, they shouldn't have.

    They released it sooner because they needed to get USB 3.0 support out there and the move to non moving-storage was important for them.

    Plus releasing these devices sooner means the price of the components will drop faster, especially for that expensive display.

    Upgrading to ML is going to be super easy anyway, so I don't see a problem with it. Plus the estimated shipping dates for the rMBP's are 3-4 weeks.
     
  3. GCWB macrumors member

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  4. shareef777 macrumors 68000

    shareef777

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    #4
    Just don't put your order in till after ML is released. Problem solved.
     
  5. Xian Zhu Xuande macrumors 6502a

    Xian Zhu Xuande

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    #5
    No. Lion works just fine for it. Maybe there will be some small enhancements in ML but I can't see anything which warrants holding back on a good ship date.
     
  6. jcpb macrumors 6502a

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    #6
    No, because that would make Apple the "odd man out" when every other ODM had released their Ivy Bridge laptops/refreshes.
     
  7. Trey M, Jul 8, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2012

    Trey M macrumors 6502a

    Trey M

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    #7
    I have to agree that the launch would've been more well-perceived if they had waited until ML. All of the reasons you have listed are completely correct, and I really do think if Apple could redo this scenario, they would release the RMBP the same day as ML.

    Why? Well, I don't think Apple necessarily knew about the lagging scrolling. Although I have the retina myself and don't notice it, a lot of people are noticing it and it's holding back at least some people on these forums from purchasing the rMBP. Not saying this forum is indicative of normal-consumer behavior, because the average person will never know those problems existed, but it has, at least, prevented a few purchases from occurring.

    I also think this would've given at least a little bit more of a grace period for devs to get their apps updated for Retina support. There have been at least a few apps updated after the announcement, though that number is not anywhere near where it needs to be.

    I cannot agree more about the issues that will happen when people try to upgrade their rMBP's to ML. Although it should technically be a non-issue experience, people are going to have run ins and blame everything on Apple. These run ins, such as compatibility issues, etc., won't be Apple's fault, as they've made these announcements months prior, but the moment Apple's changes come to frutition there will always be certain people complaining and bashing Apple for something that really isn't there fault at all.

    Did Apple do the right thing for the consumer by releasing the rMBP earlier rather than later? Definitely, I'm loving every second I spend with my Retina.

    Did Apple do the best thing for themselves and public perception by releasing the rMBP sooner rather than later? I don't think so.


    And forgot all about availability...not having the stock to sell something you're advertising on TV every 4 seconds is pretty stupid.
     
  8. mattonthemoon macrumors regular

    mattonthemoon

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    #8
    ^^^ This.
     
  9. maswriter macrumors member

    maswriter

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    #9
    It seems that we all agree that Apple shouldn't have waited for Mountain Lion to come out to release the refreshes. It also isn't unusual for computer companies to release new products before an OS update comes out. It certainly isn't unusual for people to buy a computer shortly before an OS update. In fact, that's the way most of my laptop purchases have been:

    * My first laptop in 1998 had Windows 95. I was able to get a free upgrade to Windows 98.

    * In 2001, I bought an HP Pavilion laptop that had just been updated to Windows XP. It still had the old Windows 9X logo on its Windows key.

    * In 2009, I bought a Dell Studio 15 with Windows Vista. I was very happy to upgrade to Windows 7 when it came out shortly afterwards.

    * Now, I have a refurbished early 2011 MacBook Pro which probably shipped with Snow Leopard. It was updated to Lion (and the Lion keyboard) by the time I bought it. And yes, I'm upgrading to Mountain Lion.

    So, enjoy your RMBP with whatever version of OS X you get with it.
     
  10. Trey M macrumors 6502a

    Trey M

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    #10

    Not everyone agreed that Apple didn't need to wait...the OP and myself.

    And your examples are pretty irrelevant...there's hundreds of Windows computers available for purchase at any given time where as Apple has a very limited portfolio of computers at any given time. And you bought a refurbished MBP which isn't even the same scenario at all. Obviously something refurb is going to be upgraded when they sell it.

    The OP wasn't bashing the RMBP, he was just looking to see if people saw that Apple might've been able to do things a bit better by launching later. From a business standpoint, several things didn't go as well as they could've had they waited a month or so, and you watch- the moment ML launches, there will be several posts on this forum of people having trouble upgrading their Retinas to ML for whatever reason.
     
  11. Rajpdx macrumors regular

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    Jun 16, 2012
    #11
    1. I received mine before Mountain Lion was released. Before Mountain Lion release > after Mountain Lion release

    2. I've been hammering my machine. Performance is excellent. I've not noticed any scrolling issues, but I'm not looking for them. I'm using the machine and it's fine.

    3. Retina 3rd Party apps - So far all of my apps have been perfectly usable, (except Viola). I've been using Photoshop heavily on gigapixel images and I've actually enjoyed using this machine with Photoshop on those images. YMMV of course.

    4. Lion is working fine for me. Mountain Lion also good. The upgrade will be simple.

    5. If not having the accessories was a deal breaker for me I would have waited.

    Releasing the machine early is the best of both worlds. Those who don't mind can order. Those who do can wait.
     
  12. stevelam macrumors 65816

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    Nov 4, 2010
    #12
    Definitely agree and actually think part of the reason it's been delayed for over a month for later orders. They want mountain lion on them to minimize all the lag or face a bunch of returns.
     
  13. maswriter macrumors member

    maswriter

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    #13
    You raised good points, but I wouldn't agree that the examples of Windows computers are irrelevant. I worked for a PC manufacturer in the 80s and 90s, and we planned a few releases to accompany Windows releases. We received beta copies of upcoming Windows releases and tested our products with them. We even wrote user guides and help with certain versions of Windows in mind.

    Our timing depended on hardware development schedules and the availability of parts and manufacturing schedules. If we knew our hardware was ready before Windows was, we shipped with the current version of Windows and continued testing to prepare for the Windows update. From a business standpoint, we couldn't afford to keep product in inventory while we waited for Microsoft.

    The situation is somewhat different for Apple as the maker of the hardware and OS, but the coordination issue is probably the same. The hardware may be ready before the software is, and they have to ship than clog their pipeline. As far as ML upgrade issues, I'm sure that Apple, like any computer manufacturer, has already done plenty of testing to make sure there aren't any -- or will work like crazy to fix any that do come up.
     
  14. alwaysaangel macrumors regular

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    May 14, 2007
    #14
    Huh? I'm curious what situation would cause this - the AppleCare generally starts 1 year after a product is purchased or in this case shipped.

    Actually I think it increased the hype exponentially. Everyone trying to get a very scarce computer really increased the amount people talked about it. I still think the "shortage" was created by apple on purpose to cause more hype.
     
  15. jcpb macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    No. AppleCare starts on the day your Mac is assembled from the factory.
     
  16. tillsbury macrumors 65816

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    #16
    This! ML sounds fine to me, but I wanted my MBP NOW!
     
  17. pgiguere1 thread starter macrumors 68020

    pgiguere1

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    #17
  18. daleski75 macrumors 65816

    daleski75

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    #18
    Apple should not delay the rMBP for ML as there is zero reason for them to do this.
     
  19. SDAVE macrumors 68040

    SDAVE

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    #19
    Wrong. It starts the date it's purchased. The original warranty. When you buy an Apple product, the reseller (or apple store themselves) add the serial number to the Apple registration automatically.

    When you purchase AppleCare, it extends your warranty to 2 more years. You need to purchase AppleCare before the 1st year of the original warranty is up. A total of 3 years.
     
  20. pgiguere1 thread starter macrumors 68020

    pgiguere1

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    #20
    I wasn't talking about delaying the production date, only the release date, so component pricing wouldn't be affected.

    And I don't see how waiting 1 month and a half more for flash storage or USB 3 is going to kill someone if he has waited that long already. Flash has been a possibility for years with the MBA or with a 2.5" SSD in the cMBP, and nobody relies on USB 3 like he could rely on FireWire, it's just a cool speed boost but nobody needs is so bad that 1 month will make a huge difference.

    Apple generally doesn't care about being a little late on certain features as long as they're polished enough to offer an excellent user experience when they're launched. The average consumer that doesn't read tech websites isn't really waiting for features that he doesn't even know exist (you'd work in an Apple store and see most have no clue what USB 3 or flash storage is). This time however some things feel a little rushed and it's like time was more important than extra polishing, even though they don't have any direct competitors to the rMBP on the market.

    The customer satisfaction surrounding the rMBP launch may not be only about the product itself but also the buying process. When customers are mad because they received an email announcing a delay and Apple has to give free gifts to people calling to complain, there's a problem somewhere. I've never seen stock so low on any Mac at its launch. Even the new iPad which also had a pretty large Retina display and had to be made in much, much larger quantities had no availability problems at all.
     
  21. jcpb macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    If what you described is the case, then that means the AppleCare on my MBPR should have been started at June 11 - when I ordered mine.

    Except... that's wrong, since my AppleCare says it started on June 17 - when my MBPR was actually fully assembled.
     
  22. alwaysaangel macrumors regular

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    May 14, 2007
    #22
    Well its charged immediately but the applecare for it doesn't kick in until the MBP is assembled at the factory.

    I get the person who bought the external displays frustration over those being covered for a different period of time than the rMBP, but the time the rMBP is covered is NOT decreased.
     
  23. Interstella5555 macrumors 603

    Interstella5555

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    #23

    The needs and priorities of a consumer differ from the needs and the priorities of a business. Additionally, Apple (as well as other tech companies) are always in a "damned if you do damned if you don't" situation with their releases, if ML dropped with the rMBP then people would complain that it wasn't ready yet, so it makes more sense to release new hardware with a stable OS rather than release new hardware and new software at the same time. (Yes, give me all the guff you want to about Lion being "stable", it works great on my late 2011 MBP).
     
  24. d3bruts1d macrumors member

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    TN
    #24
    No, I don't think there was any need to wait to release the rMBP.

    1- Availability. I ordered mine (BTO) on June 11th several hours after it was announced. It was shipped on June 15th and I got it on the 18th. There isn't much difference in buy now and we ship out what we have and buy now and we ship out in a few weeks. The first option some gets get theirs right away with others later, the 2nd everyone gets theirs later. Either way someone is going to be unhappy.

    2- Scrolling performance issues. I've seen reports of this, but I have not actually experienced it myself. While professional reviews are nice, most of the technical people I know are going to make a purchase after using it or being recommended from a trusted source. That is with the exception of those people that went out and purchased it blindly.

    3- Retina-enabled third-party applications. There is no guarantee that delaying shipments would have increased the number of retina apps available. It's kind of hard to develop and test your apps if you don't have a product to use. Actually, had the units been delayed from shipping we wouldn't be seeing retina apps for a much longer period.

    4- No OS upgrade process. This only impacts a small percentage of people: those that ordered early. Upgrading isn't difficult, and if it is a problem for you the simple solution is to wait. That way you get your "perfect out of box experience" you desire; For me, I already have mine.

    5- Accessory availability. There were 3rd party cases and accessories available at launch. Again, there is no guarantee that anyone would have had a unit to use for design and testing. If you look at a number of manufacturers many were saying "we'll have more information on products when we receive our unit." The same thing happened with the iPad 3 release. ThunderBolt products would be nice, but you can get the same things in USB3 versions if it is a must have.


    I am satisfied now. I don't think delaying the shipments would have made me "more satisfied."
     
  25. mad-jamie16 macrumors regular

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    England
    #25
    Thats a different scenario though... If you ordered a Mac and it hasn't been assembled yet of course its going to start when it is shipped to you, not when you order it... But if you buy a Mac that is already assembled of course its going to start when you pick it up or when it ships, otherwise your Apple Care could of started months ago.
     

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