Should the NCAA do something about unacceptable low graduation rates

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Rodimus Prime, Oct 18, 2010.

  1. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #1
    http://blog.syracuse.com/sports/2010/03/should_teams_with_low_graduati.html

    I was looking graduation rates of NCAA teams and how it was figured out. The rates are figured it makes the numbers even scarier.

    In football OU and UT both have a below 50% rate. That means less than 50% who go to the school on scholarship get a degree in 6 years. If someone goes pro, drops out, or transfers in good standing they are not counted for or against the school.
    Remember pro is such a low rate (about 1.2% for basketball) it should not matter.

    To me that speak volumes about sports in school and needs massive reform. I like choice about the NCAA is banning schools from post season play if they are not at acceptable numbers. Hell this might clean up some schools acts pretty quickly.

    I think it is really sad that less than 50% of the people who go to those big football schools are in any way prepared for what goes on afterwards (pros not counting).

    Maybe it is high time some punishments happen to the school if they fail to graduated in 6 years. Say lost of a scholarship for 4 years. If the person graduates with in those 4 lost years the punishment is lifted.
     
  2. dmr727 macrumors G3

    dmr727

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    #2
    College football is a business. Anyone that thinks it has anything to do with academics is naive. I'm not saying it should be that way, but it is. The NCAA knows this.
     
  3. Rodimus Prime thread starter macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #3
    That is the sad part is they are pretty much causing people to waste part of their lives for nothing but business. But now it is starting to get to the point for that "business" schools are adding on tons of fees to pay for to the students.

    They argue that it is good for the student and they are getting and education but that is a load of crap.
    The schools at the top are the worse offenders. NCAA is becoming toothless. You schools get the death plenty for repeated violation but they refuse to do. They are to scared to repeat another SMU (22 years before another bowl game and destroyed a conferences) but in some ways I think it is needed because no one is scared of the punishment.

    But maybe it is high time to say if you do not have a 40% banned from post season and keep raising it until it like at least 60%
     
  4. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #4
    I dunno, I don't have much sympathy for those who are on scholarship to go to school FREE and waste it when I had to pay my way.

    To not finish is the fault of the player. They can't go "woe is me" when they were essentially given the golden opportunity and squandered it
     
  5. Rodimus Prime thread starter macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #5
    Yeah but how do you a paying student feel about having student fees tack on to your tuition to pay for scholarships that go to waste.
     
  6. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

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    #6

    This is why I especially like this story.

    I was his first art instructor when he started out on a degree to photography, while also being a student athlete. He walked on to the team, without a scholarship, and worked hard for a number of years while also working on his academics. In his final year, he was awarded a scholarship and a place on the team.

     
  7. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #7
    I wouldn't say a waste as they (the football team) will bring more to the university revenue wise than their scholarships are worth.

    Now, when you go to a school who has a crappy team and quite a few scholarship players, it does irk me lol even though I know that the team still brings in more than they give out in free rides
     
  8. Rodimus Prime thread starter macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #8
    if you look at athletic programs most of them run at a lost. It scary but you have fees take on per hour. I know at TTU they had them but at the same time it has the 3rd highest graduation rate of its football players which was at 70+% which is above TTU average for student body at large.
    I would be happy if Schools where at 66% (2/3) which is on par with the average who enter getting a degree. If they are drafted hell have them count for it as well but only if they are drafted.

    I have nothing agaist the scholarships providing they earn a degree. It is sad when the smaller schools have students who get the full ride who want a degree and will earn it. or you go to non revenue sports and their they OMG get a degree. But then again in those areas that is some of the things the coaching staff looks at is are they going to finish.

    Big sports schools do not give a damn. or to many coaches don't. Good coachs will push it.

    Leach pushed it. I know Bobby Knight pushed it and he raise the Basket Ball program rate at TTU by a lot and I believe Indiana had a good rate as well during his tenure
     
  9. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

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    #9
    I'm guessing that for big-name sports schools, a significant portion of student athletes competing in the sport for which the college is known probably wouldn't be there except for their athletic ability. If you can't graduate in 6 years (barring legitimate unforeseen circumstances), you probably didn't belong at college to begin with.
     
  10. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #10
    The scholastic performance certainly varies a helluva lot. The football program of the UT at Austin supports the rest of the sports program, except that the baseball and both men and women's basketball programs are self-supporting. Overall, the sports program puts several million dollars into academics.

    As far as football players and grades, they take tutors on the buses during away-game trips, and the kids must stay current with homework. They make their grades or they're off the team.
     
  11. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #11
    For the NCAA to punish schools when players get agents is stupid when you consider how mush they are exploiting these kids to make money. The NCAA is one of the most corrupt agencies in the country. All they care about is making money and will throw kids and schools under the bus to get it. Who cares if the kids get agents to protect themselves from injury. The NCAA isn't doing a damn to protect these kids.
     
  12. Rodimus Prime thread starter macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #12
    Maybe it is high time NCAA have a major over haul. NCAA will punish the small schools harshly because they do not bring in huge amounts of money.
    Put they will not punish a school like UT, or OU because they are to big. Hell those schools could more than likely both do massive things to warrent the Death Plenty and NCAA would really do nothing but a slap on the wrist.

    I like what the article suggest if below 40% banned from post season. Hell ban from live TV. You will see them really shape up fast if those numbers hit.
    In one basketball program on the article they have a better chance of going pro (1.2%) vs getting a degree (0%) that is really sad.

    NCAA should do a lot more to protect the kids.
     
  13. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #13
    If schools are going to accept huge TV deals worth billions of dollars that money should go back into the schools to help lower tuition and help the students. It seems that all that money gets funneled into the NCAA and the students or schools rarely see any of it.
     
  14. Rodimus Prime thread starter macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #14
    it is worse than that. The students generally have to eat fee added to tuition to help fund the sports. Not the other way around.

    At TTU they did some massive upgrades to the stadium. Guess what the students add fees raised to help pay for it. Other schools do the same. It is sad but students have fees added to fund those programs not the other way around.
     
  15. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #15
    So where is all the lucrative CBS and ESPN money going? March Madness and the BCS should be paying for these kids to go to school.
     
  16. Rodimus Prime thread starter macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #16
    To pretty much line the pockets NCAA, coaching staff each. Yes some of it goes to pay for other sports and non revenue generating sports which is fine but it cross the line when student pay out.

    if you look at the non revenue generating sport low and behold those kids get degrees. Hell one of the things they look at from the recruits is can they earn a degree. It is not just abusing them for money.

    College first job is to educated and the NCAA should enforce that. Not try to get money only.
     
  17. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #17
    The NCAA should have 2 jobs, protect the players and make sure the rules are enforced. They do neither, they are more worried about making the most money and exploiting the players to do it. If they cared about integrity of the game the BCS would not exist. They would rather let the grades slip as long as the biggest and best players take the field.

    Let these kids make money off of their talent because the majority of them will never go pro. Those that do go pro could care less about their education anyways. Either force all of them to go to school for 4 years or allow them to get agents because this is just a tune up for the NBA or NFL.
     
  18. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    #18
    I'm confused - if you don't graduate, and you don't drop out, then do you simply disappear into a void? :confused:

    I don't have a source, but I remember reading some time ago that graduation rates for the general student population hovers at or around 50-60% for most universities. There's no epidemic here, IMO.
     
  19. Rodimus Prime thread starter macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #19
    depends on the schools but I know TTU campus wide number was like 56% which was considered low. 66% I think is the number I have read (2/3's people who start finish)

    Basically under NCAA rules if a student leaves transfers or drops out in good standing and could of finished a degree with in the 6 years they are not counted either way.

    That means a rule like 40-50% required floor before lets say post season banning comes in other punishments is not really unreasonable. It is below average.

    But for example the California school than had a 0% graduation rate is completely unacceptable.
     
  20. 63dot, Mar 18, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2011

    63dot macrumors 603

    63dot

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    #20
    Like someone said, it's about football and the money it can bring to a school. One school I went to as a transfer had a reading lab for their sports players. Football players were by far the worst students. Yes, there was the occasional smart one, but that was pretty darn rare considering the team as a whole.

    I really only worried about how I did and what I learned and I didn't care if there were illiterate players at Cal State (fill in the blank). They didn't take a spot away from me, and if they did, there's no way that person will be any sort of competition against me in the job market.

    If a person has a great skill at taking out a QB or giving any other football players a concussion, and that's all they are good at, then heck, why not let them play for the school? With 3,000 students where I went (and not enough players to fill out a backup squad) I don't think the few spots on the small Div. 3 football team really changed the reputation of the academics which was generally pretty good. I would not be surprised if Maryland's low graduation rate matched that of the Cal State I went to. I was shocked to hear of Cal's low graduation rate as I thought they would try and protect their overall academic reputation as they can do w/o the money from basketball and football and still do quite well.

    My roomy could read and was not really a dumb guy and was a basketball player, but his crack addiction was kind of a bad habit he took up hanging with part of the team at all hours of the night. It was ugly to see his personality change. When pro football players and pro basketball players control their actions and/or drug/alcohol intake, then maybe we can start criticizing the intake behaviors of college student-athletes.

    If you get all pretty decent scholars at any school, your football team is going to suffer some (basketball, too). My roommate was definitely a thug, or became one, and had a pretty bad record by the time I moved out of the apartment, but he grew up on the streets and could play very well as much of the rest of the SF or Oakland raised team could. I am sorry but you are not going to build as good a team with kids from Los Altos Hills and Woodside year after year.:eek:
     

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