Should the US Stop Travel from West Africa

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Southern Dad, Oct 3, 2014.

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Should there be changes to travel from West Africa?

  1. No

    27 vote(s)
    26.5%
  2. Not at this time but options should be kept open

    14 vote(s)
    13.7%
  3. There should be a quarantine upon arrival

    14 vote(s)
    13.7%
  4. There should be a quarantine prior to leaving

    10 vote(s)
    9.8%
  5. Travel should be cut off

    37 vote(s)
    36.3%
  1. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #1
    According to Liberian officials, Thomas Duncan, the individual in Dallas that has the Ebola virus lied about contact with the disease when asked during when exiting. He answered "no" on the question about whether he had cared for a patient with the deadly virus. He also answered "no" to the question as to whether he had touched the body of someone who died from the disease.

    Witnesses and community leaders have said that he was caring for a patient with ebola.

    There is no doubt that the medical treatment for a patient with ebola in the United States is far better than for a patient in Liberia. I'm not accusing Thomas Duncan of this but I'm starting a debate about whether a person knowing they had the disease and knowing that chances of survival in West Africa were far lower than in America might lie on the exit interviews and board a plane for here knowing that their chance of survival was far better.

    Should the USA stop travelers from coming from West Africa? Should travelers from effected areas be quarantined prior to boarding the plane to the USA? Truthfully, this applies to those of you across the pond, as well. People with this disease may decide that their chances are better in the UK or another European nation.
     
  2. mudslag macrumors regular

    mudslag

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    #2
    The problem with a quarantine is where do you quarantine them? Right now all those in quarantine here are done so in their homes. So where do we put people that don't live here. We are not equipped to quarantine hundreds if not thousands of people that travel here each month.
     
  3. Southern Dad thread starter macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #3
    I agree that this is a problem. Which of course, is why we had Ellis Island. That is why I believe that the quarantine would have to be in their home countries with a verification signed off by a doctor who had observed them for 21 days. It really wouldn't have to be a quarantine where someone is restricted to a building, per say but rather a quarantine away from those with ebola or even areas where ebola is rampant.

    Right now, you check a few boxes on a form and you're on your airplane to wherever.

    I can see how a person who has come in contact with Ebola in West Africa where the mortality rate for this disease is very high might be tempted to suddenly find it necessary to visit the USA. Call it Medical Tourism. I'm not even saying that I wouldn't be tempted to do something like it if I was exposed. Your chance of survival increases exponentially if you are in the USA vs West Africa.
     
  4. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #4
    You make it sound as if people in West Africa are saying "Hmm.. I'm feeling a little unwell.. it might be the Ebola I picked up when burying aunt Ofeibea. Should I fly to London, Berlin, or Miami to get medical care?"

    Thats not really the way it works. People flying probably have no idea if they are sick or not. And anyone with enough disposable income to afford international air travel probably has enough to afford healthcare in the place where they got sick.

    If someone is determined to get here from Liberia or Nigeria, they could easily bypass restrictions by flying via a third country. All that the restrictions would do is make it difficult for people with legitimate business and family reasons from travelling.
     
  5. Southern Dad thread starter macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #5
    No, I'm not saying that they are and I clearly said that. But if you knew you were exposed and the survival rate was far higher would you consider taking a trip to the USA? I think if this disease continues to spread there will be some that would consider it.

    Thomas Duncan knew he had been exposed because he cared for an Ebola patient. Yet, he answered "no" on the two questions and was able to travel. I'm not saying this was in his mind, and he may fave charges when he returns to Liberia, but they thing are currently we may face "Medical Tourism" where Johnny would rather be diagnosed in the USA than in West Africa.

    I'm just having a conversation. Passports would show the travel history.
     
  6. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #6
    I'm glad you brought that up. The most deadly disease commonly transported by airplane is likely influenza. Somewhere between 100,000 and 10,000,000 deaths per year, depending on the estimate, the year, and the strain. (The 1918-1919 pandemic killed around 50,000,000-- nobody knows for sure.)

    I don't think it is a bad idea to have some kind of system in place. People have been predicting an event like this for over 20 years. It is here.

    I think we need to learn more about exactly how Ebola is transmitted. Compare to Norovirus, for example. Sounds similar in many ways, but, much more deadly.
     
  7. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 604

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    Oct 27, 2009
  8. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #8
    Very strange.

    In one sentence you deny claiming that sick West Africans deliberately choose to come to the US or Europe in search of better medical care. And then in the next you turn around and say they would do exactly that.

    Which makes it very difficult to have a good faith discussion of serious issues.
     
  9. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #9
    he asked a QUESTION, here

    seems the guy who brought it was caring for a patient with Ebola, yet decided to lie in order to get into the U.S.
    would YOU DO the same?

    ?<<<<<<<<<<<question

    ----------

    can't tell if serious.
     
  10. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Washington, DC
    #10
    No.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ts-to-travelers-from-ebola-ravaged-countries/

    1) Ebola is transmitted through direct contact with a sick person's bodily fluids. You can't get Ebola by breathing air breathed by someone with Ebola.

    2)
    3) travel restrictions make fighting Ebola harder, because it makes it harder for medical professionals to reach affected countries.

    4) fighting the disease in the affected countries is the way to make us all safer.

    5) saving lives in West Africa matters, because we're talking about human beings.


    People who want to close the border probably 1) don't have any interest in traveling to West Africa 2) don't know anyone from West Africa who might want to travel there, and 3) don't care at all if people in West Africa die.
     
  11. ugahairydawgs, Oct 3, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2014

    ugahairydawgs macrumors 68020

    ugahairydawgs

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    #11
    Denying entry to the US by non-US citizens who have been to any effected countries within the past month should have already been in place. Any US citizens that have been there can come back, but there needs to be a location for them to be quarantined in the short term to make sure they are not a carrier.

    Letting people from those areas freely move between countries is only asking for trouble.....and trouble is starting to show up.
     
  12. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    Jul 11, 2003
    #12
    I think we should deny entry to non-US citizens who have been in the 3 affected countries. We should also be quarantining any citizens who come from there. Beats the hell out of the CDC trying to track down the 80-100 people who were exposed to the latest victim.
     
  13. Southern Dad, Oct 3, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2014

    Southern Dad thread starter macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

    Joined:
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    #13
    Please put aside your blinding hatred of me, reread my statements and hopefully you will understand what I'm saying. I've not said anyone is doing it now but is it something that could start happening? There is already "Pregnancy Tourism" to take advantage of our citizenship laws, could "Medical Tourism" come our way?

    This time we are in agreement. Rare, I know.

    --------------------------------------

    Within the hour there is going to be a news conference from the Atlanta area. Someone arrested, appeared unwell. He has a fever and recently travelled to West Africa. False alarm but we now have the cleanest jail intake area around.
     
  14. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
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    #14
    I doubt anyone blindly hates you.

    Some of us just disagree with many of the ideas you put forth in these posts.

    Neither your detractors nor you should confuse disagreeing about ideas with personal hatred.
     
  15. FreemanW macrumors 6502

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    The Real Northern California
    #15
    Many would agree that your idea is about two centuries behind the times.
     
  16. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    Dec 21, 2011
    Location:
    República Cascadia
    #16
    Ebola-infected countries in Western Africa should be placed on the list of countries that American citizens cannot visit w/o special permission, i.e. Cuba, North Korea.

    American citizens returning from those same areas should be quarantined upon arrival.

    Foreigners from those same areas should not be permitted entry to the United States.

    When the virus burns itself out, then we can consider lifting the restrictions.

    None of this will occur, however.
     
  17. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #17

    I never said you were wrong all the time. :p
     
  18. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #18
    You do realize that the United States has considerable commercial business connections in West Africa. Exxon-Mobil and Chevron both operate extensive petroleum drilling and refining operations in Nigeria; and there is also considerable mining and engineering business there also.

    There is also a sizable community of US citizens and permanent residents with large family ties to Liberia, Nigeria, etc. People with mothers, fathers, children, and siblings living in Lagos and Dakar.

    In any given week I am quite certain that several thousand US citizens travel, on quite legitimate purposes, between West Africa and the US. Where do we propose to quarantine them? And what are they supposed to do about their jobs and families while waiting out the quarantine?

    I'm quite certain that (non-medical personnel) US citizens traveling to West Africa will, with few if any exceptions, take extreme care to avoid situations where they might become infected.
     
  19. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #19
    All true; however, perhaps just once we can place our (the USA) health above the profits of multi-national corporations. I'm sure most of Exxon-Mobil's and Chevron's drilling and refining operations are done by local nationals. Management can teleconference for a few months instead of flying their private jets back and forth from Texas and California to Africa. Just imagine, they can save the climate and protect the homeland.

    But like I said, we won't do anything.
     
  20. vrDrew macrumors 65816

    Joined:
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    #20
    Actually, we're already doing quite a lot.

    If you look closely at what the people at the CDC (Centers for Disease Control) and NIH (Natl. Institute of Health) are doing, its quite impressive.

    To begin with, many airlines have independently cut-back or eliminated flights to areas with Ebola. Additionally, the US CDC has worked with airlines and international air agencies to implement exit screening processes to identify passengers who may be infected prior to boarding. Passengers who report activities that may risk potential exposure are restricted from flying for 21 days. Passengers exhibiting symptoms of possible infection (fever, vomiting, unexplained bruising) are not allowed to board, and are barred from flying until cleared by a Doctor.

    The CDC has issued a "Level 3" travel alert for Liberia and Sierra Leone. This recommends against "non-essential" travel to those countries. Basically, if you don't have to go there - don't. Nigeria and other west African countries have been issued a Level 2 Alert, which means "Take extra precautions" against infections.

    The CDC has also developed training materials that allows aircraft cabin crew to identify potentially infected passengers; how to safely handle ill passengers (including use of gloves, masks, face-shields, etc.) - and how to report ill-passengers to authorities here in the USA.

    The CDC has also dispatched more than 90 professionals to affected areas of west Africa (mainly Liberia and Sierra Leone) to help local authorities contain the spread of disease.

    Frankly, the medical professionals at Government organizations such as the CDC and FAA really do seem to know the best way to deal with this outbreak. Completely cutting of travel to all of west Africa would do grave harm to the economies of those nations, and would greatly hinder the ability of Governments and NGOs to treat sick people and stop the spread of the disease.
     
  21. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #21
    We're not talking all of West Africa, just Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea. And frankly, I don't give a damn about the vanishingly small economies of those three kleptocratic regimes--I worry about the health and welfare of the citizens of the USA. In any event, most African countries have banned travel to and from Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea because that's exactly what will prevent the spread of the disease to their nations.
     
  22. Aspasia macrumors 65816

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    #22
    Yes, but as we've learned, passengers lie about their activities and the CDC procedures certainly weren't followed with Mr. Duncan's case.

    Does every hospital in the US have one or more isolation rooms? I really have no idea.
     
  23. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #23

    What about those Obama FEMA detention camps?
     
  24. shinji macrumors 65816

    shinji

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    #24
    Only if they have their own death panels.
     
  25. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #25
    I would say a mandatory quarantine would detract most from traveling. If we require everyone who flies in from these countries to undergo 21 days quarantine at their own expense (for non medical) I'd say it would be sufficient.

    ----------

    The government can setup a quarantine area anywhere they need to. As for their jobs/families, who gives a **** if it prevents other people from dieing because of their careless actions.

    A better solution would be not to travel to these areas to start with unless they are trained medical personnel.
     

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