Should we criticize Postmodernism?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Solver, Dec 11, 2018.

  1. Solver, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018

    Solver macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Location:
    USA
    #1
    An article in Areo magazine talks about Postmodernism and it’s negative effects on culture.

    Some of the quotes:

    “Postmodernist thought sees the culture as containing a number of perpetually competing stories, whose effectiveness depends not so much on an appeal to an independent standard of judgement, as upon their appeal to the communities in which they circulate.”

    “It posits a classic orthodoxy through which all of human experience is explained — and through which all speech must be filtered. … Like the Puritanism once familiar in New England, intersectionality controls language and the very terms of discourse.”

    “When I had occasion to ask her [postmodern philosopher, Laurie Calhoun] whether or not it was a fact that giraffes are taller than ants, she replied that it was not a fact, but rather an article of religious faith in our culture.”

    https://areomagazine.com/2017/03/27...-west-postmodernism-and-its-impact-explained/
     
  2. jerwin macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    #2
    Should we? Should,we? What is this errant nonsense!


    If one cannot critique, how can one deconstruct?

    deconstructionism.gif
    --- Post Merged, Dec 11, 2018 ---
    I noticed something weird about that site, though.

    It reminds me, at least superficially, of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeon_(digital_magazine)
     
  3. Mousse macrumors 68020

    Mousse

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Location:
    Flea Bottom, King's Landing
    #3
    Kill it with fire. Gawd, these loonies should be forced to remain in the fringes. They introduce chaos to an orderly world for no other purpose than to introduce chaos. Next thing you know, they'll tell you 2+2=5 if they haven't said so already.o_O
     
  4. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    #4
    Does the same relativistic point of view apply to stuff like homicide? And War? How about the holocaust?
     
  5. Solver, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018

    Solver thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Location:
    USA
    #5
    I think they call those “social constructs.” I’m not sure how these fit in their current narrative. They avoid reasoning.
    Foucault said, “Reason is the ultimate language of madness” I strongly disagree.
     
  6. jerwin, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018

    jerwin macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    #6
    ah yes. The death of the modern. Hence the need for postmodernism.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 11, 2018 ---
    If the the holocaust was so wrong, then why did it happen? Why did the perpetrators act against this allegedly universal moral instinct?

    You and I are in some agreement that it was a crime against humanity, but what caused so many to ignore this consensus?
     
  7. ThisBougieLife macrumors 68000

    ThisBougieLife

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, California
    #7
    Interesting article. There's a lot I could comment on, but one quoted line that stood out to me:

    "Science has always been used to legitimize racism, sexism, classism, transphobia, ableism, and homophobia, all veiled as rational and fact, and supported by the government and state."

    This statement is true. But science has also been use to delegitimize these things. I'm not sure why that aspect of it is overlooked. People attempted to justify racism and homophobia using science, no denying that. But the science they used was either very primitive or never really supported it. It was prejudice veiled as scientific fact. Advances in science showed their claims to be erroneous. Attacking the way science has been used is valid, but attacking science itself as "problematic" is off-base.
     
  8. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    #8
    Groupthink facilitated by one guy that was able to interpret the feelings - and hidden resenful sentiments - of a population, a feeling that built over several years and that was ultimately put in place. That’s the risk that will incur with the formation of any group, be it a state or just a NGO.
     
  9. jerwin macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    #9
    Had to look that up. Not because I'm unfamiliar with the term, but because the man of 1933 just might be.

    Screen Shot 119.png
    As I suspected, it's a recent coinage.
     
  10. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    #10
    Yes, it is... I am not following.
     
  11. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    #11
    Do you believe that words must first be created before what they describe can take place?
     
  12. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    #12
    I guess the question for the ages is: what was born first, the hipster or the “hipster”?
     
  13. Solver thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Location:
    USA
    #13
    I’m thinking of “gravity.“ Did it exist before it was discovered, or before there was a word assigned to it?
    I’d say, yes.
     
  14. jerwin macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    #14
  15. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    #15
    Well, if we say that the word determines what exists aren’t we saying that nothing existed before language appeared?
     
  16. jerwin macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    #16


    You are, of course, aware that the word "gravity" predates Newton.

    But Aristotelean gravity is not especially useful.
     
  17. chown33 Moderator

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Location:
    bedlam
    #17
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    -- John 1:1

    Word.
     
  18. Solver thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Location:
    USA
    #18
    Exactly. “Gravity” (the objective force) existed first. Discoveries, concepts and the word came later.
    But in postmodernism, there is no objective reality. Just subjective stuff that we socially construct.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 11, 2018 ---
    “Gravity” (the objective force) pre-dates this galaxy, although there’s no way to absolutely prove it.
     
  19. ThisBougieLife macrumors 68000

    ThisBougieLife

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, California
    #19
    This article posits that identity politics and true liberalism are at odds. But if equality is a principal of liberalism, aren't the different issues faced by different races/classes/sexes relevant? I understand that one can get bogged down in identity to the point of missing the forest for the trees, missing the universal human problems that we all face, but then you can't deny that experiences are different depending on your identity. There may be common threads, but solving the specific problems requires acknowledging the differences.
     
  20. jerwin, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018

    jerwin macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    #20
    Recently on my bedside table.

    [​IMG]

    Not one road, but three.

    Granted, all three approaches to gravity are tested against one observable universe-- so you could argue that there's one objective but not completely understood reality -- provided of course that you discard the idea of a universal reference frame.

    Moreover, there's still the puzzle of "dark energy" and "dark matter".
     
  21. Solver, Dec 11, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018

    Solver thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    Location:
    USA
    #21
    Objective reality is unthinkably complex, with incalculable rules yet to be discovered, by methods that are constantly evolving, to ever increase our knowledge to understand a bit more, for increasing the odds to be living how we freely choose, until mankind takes one of the many roads to extinction.
     
  22. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Location:
    Velvet Green
    #22
    What an effete question. You might as well ask, “should we criticize haggis?” for all the relevance it would have to most of us. If postmodernism was a major thing that affected us all in significant ways, it might be worthy of discussion, but it is an obscure thing that never really caught on, so why bother?
     
  23. jerwin macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    #23
    The overall implication of the website is that some people take jordan peterson way too seriously.

    hint: "marcuse" gets plenty of hits.
     
  24. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040

    yaxomoxay

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    #24
    Ah, this sounds like an extremely interesting book! Added to my list.
     
  25. Mousse macrumors 68020

    Mousse

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Location:
    Flea Bottom, King's Landing
    #25
    Of course we should criticize postmodern thinking. From its head sprung ideas like alternative facts, fake news and all sorts of mumbo-jumbo. Giraffes being taller than ants is "not a fact, but rather an article of religious faith in our culture.":rolleyes: Yeah, okay. Lemme fit 'em with a white jacket with extra long sleeves.
     

Share This Page

33 December 11, 2018