Since companies are leaving the US en masse,

thermodynamic

Suspended
Original poster
May 3, 2009
1,336
1,175
USA
despite taking every shred of corporate welfare and other taxpayer-funded handout while leaving our country anyway, what happens next? Apart from eventually being betrayed by the countries they move to, of course, because they have seen how they've treated already developed countries.

How much money is too much? When does it become greed? Weren't the 80s the decade of greed and how come it's in the middle of its 3rd decade despite people saying the 80s are long gone?

Will lower tax rates bring back companies? Okay, sure. I doubt many people will complain about income taxes, or sole proprietorships having to pay double for some taxes since the owner is also the worker...

How about lower wages since that's worked so well for the working class over the last three decades? Who is willing to work for $2/day since that leads to freedom and prosperity for workers and the work involved is so simple and safe that there is no chance of harm, or because the work doesn't have complexity or responsibility or ramifications... or if nothing else pay 50x more just so the CEO can keep his far-far-far-far-higher standard of living (they will cash in on stock to leave those paper owners high and dry as well, since nobody remembers 2007 or 1987...) They want everyone else to cut back, fine. How come they are the sole exemptions? Seems like a double standard but I might be wrong in perception...

Or Google it. Three keywords are all it takes, "companies leaving US". Despite tax rates being gratuitous since the 1950s and the US, in 2016, is not the most highly taxed nation (google that, too)...
 

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
27,345
12,408
It's time for the government to play hardball with these companies. Take Walgreens. Very simple solution. You renounce your US corporate status, you are no longer eligible to fulfill prescriptions for Medicare and Medicaid. Watch how fast they decide to stay.
 

BoxerGT2.5

macrumors 68000
Jun 4, 2008
1,929
11,091
We live in a global economy now. You can't compare what happened decades ago to today because back then the US WAS the only market. This protectionist/isolationist attitude that we will start penalizing companies who, of their own free will, relocate to another part of the globe to limit tax liability will only drive more of them out if/when they get a chance. Take a look at what Canada did and how it worked out for them.
 

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
27,345
12,408
We live in a global economy now. You can't compare what happened decades ago to today because back then the US WAS the only market. This protectionist/isolationist attitude that we will start penalizing companies who, of their own free will, relocate to another part of the globe to limit tax liability will only drive more of them out if/when they get a chance. Take a look at what Canada did and how it worked out for them.

Of course we live in a global economy. When a company like Walgreens, that built its business here in the US, buys a foreign company and threatens to leave to save on taxes, I see no good reason why they should still be able to profit from government spending. Cut off their Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements and hit them hard; it represents over 25% of their business. I'd also like to see the media play this up and Americans boycott companies that do this. You want the benefits of the USA,, you need to pay.
 
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jkcerda

macrumors 6502a
Jun 10, 2013
682
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Criminal Mexi Midget
It's time for the government to play hardball with these companies. Take Walgreens. Very simple solution. You renounce your US corporate status, you are no longer eligible to fulfill prescriptions for Medicare and Medicaid. Watch how fast they decide to stay.
you want the GOVT that passed TPP to play hardball?
 

jkcerda

macrumors 6502a
Jun 10, 2013
682
38,977
Criminal Mexi Midget
Odd, for months it was Obama who passed TPP. Now it's the government. DO you often change your arguments to suit a particular thread? :p
if I say Obama you complain, if I say the GOVT you complain, do you guys keep complaining even when things are impartial? Obama did pass TPP, with the help of republicans & other democrats.
 

dogslobber

macrumors 68040
Oct 19, 2014
3,476
4,666
Apple Campus, Cupertino CA
despite taking every shred of corporate welfare and other taxpayer-funded handout while leaving our country anyway, what happens next? Apart from eventually being betrayed by the countries they move to, of course, because they have seen how they've treated already developed countries.

How much money is too much? When does it become greed?
I think these companies have a point. Taxing them just gives the government more money to squander. We taxpayers are lucky to know that the government will never fail to spend all our money on frivolous and useless things. It's why we have politicians.
 

imhereareyou

macrumors regular
Aug 28, 2013
245
88
I think these companies have a point. Taxing them just gives the government more money to squander. We taxpayers are lucky to know that the government will never fail to spend all our money on frivolous and useless things. It's why we have politicians.
Like foreign aid...
 

imhereareyou

macrumors regular
Aug 28, 2013
245
88
I don't think foreign aid is the low hanging fruit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_aid_recipients

Ummm it would save us billllllions...
Belarus for example hates us but we send $107 million bucks to them...why should we if 69% of the country doesnt like us???
Lebanon we give $626 million!! They dont like us either... Boom. Instant savings with just 2 places

Not to mention pakistan where we give like 2 billion!!
 

vrDrew

macrumors 65816
Jan 31, 2010
1,317
11,832
Midlife, Midwest
Its a highly complex issue. One not easily addressed with slogans; bumperstickers; and cheaply-printed trucker hats. There are a number of issues at stake here. Some of which are perhaps slightly easier to address than others through Government action.

Probably the easiest would be the instances of so-called Corporate Inversions. Where a corporation buys another,
domiciled in a foreign nation with lower corporate taxes; and then promptly moves its headquarters to that nation to take advantage of lower Corporate taxes. Changes to IRS rules and a general reform of the US Corporate tax code would go a long way to putting an end to such practices. But changing the Tax code is something that can only be done by Congress, and with the cooperation of a President who not only understands the ramifications of such a step; but who has the political capital and personal will to get it done. President Obama, might I note, has repeatedly asked for reform of US Corporate tax law - but he has met with obstruction at pretty much every level.

The issue of companies moving manufacturing jobs to lower-wage countries is one that has been taking place for well over a century now. The pace has only increased in recent decades. Its easy to blame this on international trade treaties, but the reality is much more complicated. In very brief terms it is simply immeasurably cheaper to ship manufactured goods across oceans than it used to be. It now costs less to ship a TV set or an iPad all the way from China to its port of entry in Los Angeles or Long Beach, than it costs for UPS to drop it off on your doorstep. Modern container ships can move a ton of freight well over a thousand nautical miles on on less than a gallon of diesel fuel.

The other issue is that the relationship between manufacturing and labor is itself changing very rapidly. Automation, robotic welding, and a host of other technologies are enabling the mass production of goods using a fraction of the labor required in previous times. Most modern automobile plants now require as little as eight to ten labor hours to completely assemble, paint, test and ship a finished car. And every year that number declines as companies drive time and labor out of the process. We get better, cheaper, safer cars. But we also get less automobile manufacturing jobs.

Building walls; breaking up banks; and starting trade wars with China and Mexico will not help alleviate the problem.

What will? I think we need to accept the fact that we are living in a largely post-industrial economy. That the norm will no longer be huge factories, employing thousands of blue collar workers earning middle-class wages. That does not mean, however, that the average American is doomed to a live of poverty and vanished opportunity. There is work to be done in this country. Work that can only be done by people who live here.

But we have to stop blaming other people for the challenges we face. We need to have honest, good faith discussion. And discussion that recognizes the importance of all the stakeholders in the conversation: voters, customers, corporations, employees. entrepreneurs, bankers, and - yes - Government itself.
 
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Raid

macrumors 68020
Feb 18, 2003
2,143
3,911
Toronto
We live in a global economy now. You can't compare what happened decades ago to today because back then the US WAS the only market. This protectionist/isolationist attitude that we will start penalizing companies who, of their own free will, relocate to another part of the globe to limit tax liability will only drive more of them out if/when they get a chance. Take a look at what Canada did and how it worked out for them.
... For clarification, how did it work for us Canadians?
 

dogslobber

macrumors 68040
Oct 19, 2014
3,476
4,666
Apple Campus, Cupertino CA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_aid_recipients

Ummm it would save us billllllions...
Belarus for example hates us but we send $107 million bucks to them...why should we if 69% of the country doesnt like us???
Lebanon we give $626 million!! They dont like us either... Boom. Instant savings with just 2 places

Not to mention pakistan where we give like 2 billion!!
Chump change compared to the 99% of squandering elsewhere. E.g. why is the US Federal Government a student loans bank? Why are rich toffs able to deduct up a million bucks in mortgage interest for their McMansions? Cut off those two gravy trains and spend the money on Vet. hospitals and invest in the country's rail, road, and bridges infrastructure.
 

imhereareyou

macrumors regular
Aug 28, 2013
245
88
Chump change compared to the 99% of squandering elsewhere. E.g. why is the US Federal Government a student loans bank? Why are rich toffs able to deduct up a million bucks in mortgage interest for their McMansions? Cut off those two gravy trains and spend the money on Vet. hospitals and invest in the country's rail, road, and bridges infrastructure.
The gov makes about 66 billion off the student loans, we don't make anything off giving people money to arm themselves....
 

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
27,345
12,408
Chump change compared to the 99% of squandering elsewhere. E.g. why is the US Federal Government a student loans bank? Why are rich toffs able to deduct up a million bucks in mortgage interest for their McMansions? Cut off those two gravy trains and spend the money on Vet. hospitals and invest in the country's rail, road, and bridges infrastructure.
More chump change. You want to save money? Stop creating vets.