Slut or Liberated?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Huntn, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #1
    We know what Rush thinks... ;)

    If you've been out of the dating scene for a decade or two, great article in Atlantic Magazine: Boys on the Side about the college hook-up culture. This article is adult reading...

    It promotes the idea that the hookup culture (casual sex) is empowering women and represents minimization of the sexist double standard. I would tend to agree. Aggressive career women don't want to be hindered by romantic entanglements and are insisting on their right to enjoy casual sex just like men have been doing since the beginning of time. ;)

    My question, what do you think is better, women up on a pedestal protecting their "virtue" or true sexual equality? Please explain your reasoning for either choice. I agree that the sexual double standard holds women back in today's professional work place.
     
  2. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #2
    I've been out of that scene for about thirty years now. And I can tell you that back in the late 70's and 80's the hook-up culture was alive and well. Kids have casual sex ... always have ... always will.

    But I will check out the article and be shocked ... SHOCKED ... at how the young ones are behaving these days.

    ;)
     
  3. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #3
    Right! Except girls were expected to be good girls, and boys were expected to be boys. ;)

    I remember soon after my son graduated from high school in 2000, I remember an article discussing common occurrence of casual sex between kids in Jr and Sr high school. If the threat of VD and accidental pregnancy are removed, I understand completely why the trend would accelerate with females.
     
  4. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #4
    Personally, I don't see how a hook up empowers women. I do agree that there is a double standard when it comes to the perception of promiscuous men and women. Unfortunately, it is not the only double standard in our society. For example look at the difference in treatment of men and women teachers who have sex with their students.
     
  5. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #5
    Just read the article. It was quite interesting and I appreciate you sharing it.

    As for your question, it's always struck me as odd that women were assigned the role as gatekeepers of virtue. Even today in debates over abortion it is not uncommon to read the phrase, "she had sex, now she has to live with the consequences." The responsibility for the act has typically been one-sided.

    So bravo for the hook-up. I never thought of myself as an impediment to a woman's future before. But working in a university I've seen first-hand that women are the more intelligent and ambitious gender, and growing in power and influence. So why wouldn't that extend to the sex lives and relationships as well?

    You go girls!

    ----------

    It allows them to be sexual without saddling themselves in a committed relationship. It gives them more freedom to pursue their ambitions without the burden of dealing with the needs of a long-term partner.
     
  6. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #6
    Im not really sure I understand the connection between having random sex and freedom. Wasn't the 1960s the era of peace and free love? I thought this would have been pioneered back then. Its certainly nothing new for a woman to have sex without commitment in this generation, they make terrible movies about it.

    I think the roles between women and men have changed, but mostly in perception. Corporations are mostly marketing to women these days because they make more of the decisions. Don't believe the perception of the male being a bumbling idiot on television, its a ploy to hook women in.
     
  7. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #7
    Did you read the article?

    It points out that these women are making their careers and mobility their priority. Hook-ups allow them to enjoy sex without commitment to long-term relationships that can get in the way of career choices. That's the freedom gained.
     
  8. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #8
    Breaking barriers that were never there.

    Women have had no strings attached sex for decades now. In the past women have chosen to focus on careers instead of households. Its their choice.
     
  9. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #9
    The barriers were very much there once.

    They may be smaller now ... and continue to shrink.

    But it's not as if they never existed.
     
  10. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #10
    Don't let me rain on the sex pioneer parade, it just seems a bit strange to me. It seems to give off the weird perception that guys are the ones who want committed relationships/kids. Most of the time its the exact opposite.
     
  11. q64ceo macrumors regular

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    #11
    Considering that the word "slut" is of vulgar Germanic origin (not vulgar as in obscenities, vulgar as in the language of the common people) and "liberated" is of sophisticated Romance origin, I think that "Liberated" will always win out

    (BTW, before you get any crazy ideas, I was being facetious)
     
  12. mellofello macrumors 65816

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    #12
    God bless sluts. I miss college. If girls are more "liberated" today then they were ten years ago, then dorms must have devolved into Greco roman orgies by now.
     
  13. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #13
    Neither. The hook up culture no more liberates women than a culture of chastity or one of polyamory. A liberated woman with sexual equality is one who is free to exercise her sexuality in a way she sees fit, not in a manner that conforms to one culture or another.
     
  14. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #14
    Women will always consider men who sleep around with a lot of women to be dogs or players.

    Guys will always consider women who sleep around to be sluts or easy.

    That's just the way it is, and always will be.
     
  15. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #15
    You did read the article, right? It focuses on college-educated professional women. Not only that, but the point is that the women are choosing when to settle down and when to have kids. Your personal experience is really irrelevant if it doesn't include the above subset of young women.
     
  16. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #16
    A fascinating article. There is an alternate reading of the data, though. The article over-generalizes: the large anecdotal sample is from an Ivy League business school. Why am I not surprised that many of the young men and women described are selfish users? I wonder what the picture looks like at a middle-class state-supported school with a preponderance of engineering and teaching programs? That would be a lot more representative of the mainstream.
     
  17. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #17
    That's EXACTLY the kind of college I work at. I tell you what ... I'll ask a random sample of coeds if they want to hook up and I'll get back to you with the results.

    Don't tell my wife.

    ;)
     
  18. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #18
    This has been going on for quite a while, just wondering if you guys have been living under a rock. If you want to celebrate a personal choice that has been made for decades go ahead. I don't remember any college women being dragged out of their courses by a man to go procreate.
     
  19. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #19
    You're trying to say that since the invention of the Pill, women's behaviour has remained static. That's obviously false. Why you can't see that is beyond me.

    Is today's behaviour evolutionary? Absolutely. Women wouldn't be able to act the way they do without the Pill, Betty Friedman, Oprah, and the entire feminist movement, but to say that their actions have not changed in 40 years is really crazy.
     
  20. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #20
    I didn't say their actions hadn't changed, I said they have had the choice and there were already women who made the choice for decades. The choice was there, they chose not to. A man wasn't roping them up to a bed and forcing them to have kids. This seems to me to be a celebration of some sort of false imprisonment when we have had women for decades continue on with graduate school and follow their careers first.

    On top of this men do not care if women have sex with them no strings attached, they actually prefer it.

    The pill isn't even relevant in this case, proper condom usage prevents pregnancy. Men are the most reluctant to have kids, they don't want to get someone pregnant randomly.
     
  21. Huntn, Sep 9, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012

    Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #21
    Take this article and add to it that women are starting to dominate in the educated work force and what we may be seeing the start of sexual roll reversal. Instead of women trying to snag successful men and settle down to have children, we have women now acting just like men have always done- seek out casual sexual relationships that don't stand in the way of careers. More of them no longer view their role in this life as being the stay at home child raisers.

    Check out Star Trek Next Generation Episode: Angel One. Mistress Beata is a real hound dog... :D

    [​IMG]
    Strong Amazon Woman with Little Girly Man. :)
     
  22. Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

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    #22
    The male stereotype, sure, though while some do that's certainly not my experience.
     
  23. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #23
    Mine as well. While men may desire women and desire sexual release, I don't think many men are (or were) comfortable seeing women share that same freedom. In my experience we want women to be faithful to us. Few men of my generation were okay having sex with a woman only to find her causally having sex with someone else soon after. That didn't usually go over very well.
     
  24. Huntn, Sep 9, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012

    Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #24
    The need of women looking to place strings on a partner has to do with a traditionally second class role. It was in their best interests to snag "security" in the form of a successful career male.

    Biology chained women to a role, and men capitalized upon it. See the Middle East for the extreme result. There were always exceptions (to accepting a sex based role), but now a days, I can easily see it going either way with flexible roles. In contrast, technology will free women and turn traditional roles up side down. Birth Control has been around for 40 years (?) and it seems like it's finally having a significant effect on society. No wonder Republican's are trying to ban it. ;)

    At this point, might as well ponder the religious significance. :D What does God really think about casual sex without pregnancy and the ability to avoid disease? From a biological stance (penetration) what is the significant difference between a French kiss and sexual intercourse if there are no resulting "accidents"? Traditional roles, traditional marriage, was this God's or Man's idea of what stable society should be? Why was it so important that sex and procreation be within the realm of spiritually sanctified, but civilly and officially recognized unions? And should the focus be on spiritual development of the individual or the insistence of traditional family? This Zach Wahls Video impressed me.

    But it was ok if the situation was reversed. You know, us men have persistent urges, can't help it. Damn biology! ;)
     
  25. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #25
    The one aspect the article avoided was the rate of sexually transmitted disease in the hook up crowd. It would have been informative to know whether it's a concern or not amongst those engaging in the behavior and what steps they are taking (or not) to minimize the risk.
     

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