So does this qualify as taking our guns?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by lostngone, Mar 23, 2018.

  1. lostngone macrumors 65816

    lostngone

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    #1
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...unces-regulation-that-bans-bump-stock-devices

    "The DOJ says if the proposal is made final, bump-stock-type devices would be effectively banned under federal law and current holders of bump-stock-type devices would be required to surrender, destroy, or otherwise render the devices permanently inoperable."

    The question now I have to ask myself is... Is this worth throwing my life away if I decide to fight this?

    Not literally of course but getting arrested, charged, having all my firearms taken, losing my job, etc.
     
  2. Zenithal macrumors 604

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    #2
    Gun owner in me sees no problem with the removal of bump stocks from public use without having a special license from ATF to own one. Normal, non gun side of me is having a chuckle that it ended up being a 'Republican' led administration that curtailed weapons ownership.
     
  3. Carnegie macrumors 6502

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    #3
    I would hope that, regardless of whether we think a ban on bump stocks would be good policy, we'd agree that such a ban shouldn't be implemented this way. This is another case of a presidential administration acting outside the discretion it properly has in accordance with the laws passed by Congress and, in effect, acting itself as legislator. To the extent relevant here, U.S. law is clear on what qualifies as a "machinegun."

    From 26 USC §5845(b):

    Bump stocks don't convert firearms into machineguns, for purposes of (relevant) U.S. law, because they don't cause firearms to fire more than one shot "by a single function of the trigger." That isn't how they work. Rather, they cause or allow triggers to be repeatedly actuated more quickly. Each function of the trigger still causes only one shot to be fired.
     
  4. mac_in_tosh macrumors 6502

    mac_in_tosh

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    #4
    Why do some people think the 2nd amendment grants unlimited gun rights? The 1st amendment doesn't grant unlimited speech rights - there are libel laws, you can't falsely yell fire in a crowded theater, etc.
     
  5. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

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    #5
    Considering they probably will need Congress to change the law to allow them to regulate them you’d stand a good chance of winning in court if you tried.
     
  6. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #6
    Is it worth throwing your life away to keep your bump-stock modification?

    No. Not in any reasonable sense of the word is that a good decision. You can still keep your firearms. You can still keep the semi-auto rifle the bump-stock is attached to. You just have to destroy or surrender the plastic and spring-steel mechanism that turns an otherwise legal firearm into a de facto (if not technically de jure) machinegun.

    Let's also be honest here: Bump stocks were never more than a noisy gimmick. Something that was good for a few yucks at the range and a way to wow onlookers. But not a serious tool for either the sportsman or the self-defense aficionado.

    So: Not worth fighting for. Save your energy for the important battles.
     
  7. lostngone thread starter macrumors 65816

    lostngone

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    #7
    Where do you live?!?! Last time I checked there were quite a few Local/State/Federal laws already on the books???
    And I can't legally discharge a firearm in a crowded theater either so what is your point?
     
  8. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

    GermanSuplex

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    #8
    Trump speaks out of both sides of his mouth, this is not surprising. At the end of the day, it’s a band-aid on an autopsy.
     
  9. lostngone thread starter macrumors 65816

    lostngone

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    #9
    The ATF has the ability to "reinterpret" laws. They have done it is the past to people. You fill out all your paperwork and get your stamp or technical ruling and then weeks or months later you get a letter in the mail telling you, oh by way, that part/gun you own is now illegal.
    You CAN fight/appeal it but normal people do have that kind of money.
     
  10. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

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    #10
    Considering Obama looked at doing this and determined that it couldn’t be done without legislative action (and he had a lot more motivation to shore up his base with gun control than Trump does) I don’t think it will hold up in court. You could hope to be one of the “lucky” ones who the NRA chooses to support to make their case.
     
  11. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #11
     
  12. mac_in_tosh macrumors 6502

    mac_in_tosh

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    #12
    I think my point was clear - the 2nd amendment does not grant unlimited gun rights. Some people seem to think they should be able to own anything they want.
     
  13. R.Perez macrumors 6502

    R.Perez

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    #13
    It's my right damn you! :):):)

    [​IMG]
     
  14. DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

    DearthnVader

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    #14
    Only real trouble I have with this is it's ex post facto law. You can't outlaw property people legally bought, then make them criminals for owning it.

    Good luck rounding all these bump stocks up, as if there were some sort of master list as to who owns one, or a thousand.
     
  15. mudslag macrumors regular

    mudslag

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  16. RootBeerMan macrumors 65816

    RootBeerMan

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    #16
    I never wanted a bump stock till the cretins in DC decided to unconstitutionally ban them. Might check into buying one. If they want to pass a ban then they need to go before congress and get them to pass a law.
     
  17. 0007776 Suspended

    0007776

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    #17
    And that is likely why Trump is going about banning them in this way. It gives a nice bump to the sales for companies that manufacture them, and it won’t hold up in court without an actual law so he doesn’t have to worry about accidentally actually banning them.
     
  18. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #18
    Why do some people create patently strawman arguments unchallenged and even applauded by the PRSI reg’lars?
     
  19. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

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    #19
    I’m for the second amendment but don’t think bump stocks should be legal. That said, there’s really nothing stopping people from manufacuting their own as they apparently are quite easy to rig... so I’m not sure how effective a ban would be, but less modified guns like this the better. Civilians don’t need automatic or pseudo automatic weapons.
     
  20. bopajuice Suspended

    bopajuice

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    #20
    I understand gun owners object to ANY type of regulation, but I have to ask what are you losing other than the novelty of pretending to be Rambo during "target practice"?

    "Throw your life away" just to defend a product that has no practical use other than for fun or slaughter? Why?

    Do you think a bump stock will help you rise against tyranny, or protect you from the zombie apocalypse?
     
  21. DearthnVader macrumors 6502a

    DearthnVader

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    #21
    I'm not sad to see these things go, as far as new sales, I just don't think that one day the government can rule a product legal, allow people to buy it and own it, then later say you can't own the product you bought legally.

    It was the ruling of the same federal branch of government that allowed these things to be sold in the first place, now they are trying to make people criminals for wanting to keep their property. When a product is defective, they don't ban people from owning it.

    This product does what it was designed to do, the same thing it did when the government said it was a legal product. Now I understand that government is not infallible, and in light of what we have seen one man do with this product I think it is reasonable to restrict, or even ban new sales. I just can't agree with government forcing people to hand over their property.

    What is further, having this new "ban" come out of the executive branch just gives cover to people in Congress that don't want their vote to be on the record for any sort of firearm related ban come Nov.
     
  22. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #22
    Sounds to me like you need to talk to your representative in congress.
     
  23. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #23
    So are they going to ban rubber bands too? LOL at all of this really. Won't change anything other than certain products no longer being sold but in terms of rapid firing any semi auto, no.
     
  24. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #24
    Who is stating that here aside from you?
     
  25. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #25
    So...in the world of 3-D printing (and so on), why would this even be a question? Btw, props to the rocket-launcher post - because where does it end? To be clear, I have no problem with gun-ownership responsibly - but it's pretty obvious many can or will not be responsible. That's why we can't have nice things.
     

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