So Hobby lobby is not trying to push it's religious agenda on no one huh?

steve knight

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Of course it is all innocent and all and of course he is not paying for it but making tax payers foot the bill. I am so sick of all these oppressed Christians forcing everyone to follow their beliefs. Of course they wanted to have a class where the bible was just literature right? well the second story shows that nope they are gonna preach and if you think different I have a bible written by Jesus himself for sale cheap and I take paypal.
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/04/17 ... disctrict/

If you value secular education in Oklahoma, you might want to remove your kids from Oklahoma’s Mustang School District in Fall 2014. Steve Green, President of Hobby Lobby, has created an elective curriculum called “Museum of the Bible Curriculum,” and it will be present in public schools. Green hopes that his curriculum will be present in “hundreds” of schools by 2016, and “thousands” by 2017, The Raw Story reports. The program is being overseen by Jerry Pattengale, head of the Green Scholars Initiative. Perhaps the most frightening part of the entire affair is that the Supreme Court did not find the program to be in violation of the establishment clause. The court’s findings in Abington School District v. Schempp said:

Nothing we have said here indicates that such study of the Bible, when presented objectively as part of a secular program of education, may not be effected consistently with the First Amendment.
The thing is, though, the things that Steve Green has to say regarding all of this suggest that his intent is anything but an objective teaching of the Bible as an optional elective class. He plans to push to mandate the teaching of the book in public schools, and he says as much.

Some day,” he said, teaching the Bible in high school “should be mandated. Here’s a book that’s impacted our world unlike any other and you’re not going to teach it?”



http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268812/conten ... d=cqzvw46f

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) - A high school curriculum supported by Hobby Lobby chain president Steve Green, billed as a way to teach archaeology, history and the arts through Bible stories, also tells students God is always there in times of trouble and that sinners must "suffer the consequences" of disobeying.

The Mustang School Board in suburban Oklahoma City voted this month to place the Museum of the Bible's curriculum in its schools as an elective for a one-year trial after being assured that the intent is not to proselytize but to use the Bible to explain key principles in the arts and sciences.

While the course does explain the inspiration behind famous works of art and holds a prism to historical events, it also endorses behavior for religious reasons and implies that bad things happen as a direct result of disregarding God's rules.

The Associated Press obtained a draft copy of the curriculum from the American Civil Liberties Union of Oklahoma, which got it from the school district. The ACLU and the Freedom From Religion Foundation say using the curriculum raises constitutional issues and want the school district to reconsider.

The course is promoted by Green, the executive for the crafts store chain who is also a member of the Bible museum's board. Green, who has said he wants the program in thousands of schools by 2017, declined to speak to the Associated Press.
 
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Southern Dad

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Of course it is all innocent and all and of course he is not paying for it but making tax payers foot the bill. I am so sick of all these oppressed Christians forcing everyone to follow their beliefs. Of course they wanted to have a class where the bible was just literature right? well the second story shows that nope they are gonna preach and if you think different I have a bible written by Jesus himself for sale cheap and I take paypal.
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/04/17 ... disctrict/

If you value secular education in Oklahoma, you might want to remove your kids from Oklahoma’s Mustang School District in Fall 2014. Steve Green, President of Hobby Lobby, has created an elective curriculum called “Museum of the Bible Curriculum,” and it will be present in public schools. Green hopes that his curriculum will be present in “hundreds” of schools by 2016, and “thousands” by 2017, The Raw Story reports. The program is being overseen by Jerry Pattengale, head of the Green Scholars Initiative. Perhaps the most frightening part of the entire affair is that the Supreme Court did not find the program to be in violation of the establishment clause. The court’s findings in Abington School District v. Schempp said:

Nothing we have said here indicates that such study of the Bible, when presented objectively as part of a secular program of education, may not be effected consistently with the First Amendment.

The thing is, though, the things that Steve Green has to say regarding all of this suggest that his intent is anything but an objective teaching of the Bible as an optional elective class. He plans to push to mandate the teaching of the book in public schools, and he says as much.

Some day,” he said, teaching the Bible in high school “should be mandated. Here’s a book that’s impacted our world unlike any other and you’re not going to teach it?”



http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268812/conten ... d=cqzvw46f

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) - A high school curriculum supported by Hobby Lobby chain president Steve Green, billed as a way to teach archaeology, history and the arts through Bible stories, also tells students God is always there in times of trouble and that sinners must "suffer the consequences" of disobeying.

The Mustang School Board in suburban Oklahoma City voted this month to place the Museum of the Bible's curriculum in its schools as an elective for a one-year trial after being assured that the intent is not to proselytize but to use the Bible to explain key principles in the arts and sciences.

While the course does explain the inspiration behind famous works of art and holds a prism to historical events, it also endorses behavior for religious reasons and implies that bad things happen as a direct result of disregarding God's rules.

The Associated Press obtained a draft copy of the curriculum from the American Civil Liberties Union of Oklahoma, which got it from the school district. The ACLU and the Freedom From Religion Foundation say using the curriculum raises constitutional issues and want the school district to reconsider.

The course is promoted by Green, the executive for the crafts store chain who is also a member of the Bible museum's board. Green, who has said he wants the program in thousands of schools by 2017, declined to speak to the Associated Press.
Who is being forced to take it?
 

steve knight

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Who is being forced to take it?
no one but it is also false advertising. they claimed over and over it will not be preaching only to to show it will be preaching. thats kind of called lying and thats a sin. so if a student took it as a class to learn more about the bible they end up getting preached at and threatened with hell. thats forcing their beliefs on others it is against the constitution to preach in school.
 

Ledgem

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I dislike Christians pushing their beliefs onto others but I agree with Southern Dad in questioning why this is a big deal. It's an elective course. It doesn't matter that they intend to eventually make it mandatory; as long as it's an elective course it doesn't matter. If and when they try to make it mandatory, then we'll have a problem worth discussing.
 

mactastic

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I dislike Christians pushing their beliefs onto others but I agree with Southern Dad in questioning why this is a big deal. It's an elective course. It doesn't matter that they intend to eventually make it mandatory; as long as it's an elective course it doesn't matter. If and when they try to make it mandatory, then we'll have a problem worth discussing.
I'm sure these people would have no problem with an elective course in Wicca or Islam?
 

Ledgem

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I'm sure these people would have no problem with an elective course in Wicca or Islam?
I don't really care what "these people" would have a problem with; I wouldn't have a problem with a school offering elective courses in those subjects, either. I'd fight with anyone who wanted to make them mandatory, just as I'd fight with anyone who wanted to make a course on Christianity mandatory.
 

mactastic

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I don't really care what "these people" would have a problem with; I wouldn't have a problem with a school offering elective courses in those subjects, either. I'd fight with anyone who wanted to make them mandatory, just as I'd fight with anyone who wanted to make a course on Christianity mandatory.
On a purely intellectual level, I agree. Teaching the Bible as literature, or an elective whatever, along with exposing kids to various other holy book electives, would be wonderful.

But we all know what this is. This ain't some benevolent guy coming in without an agenda, just wanting the best for these kids. This is part and parcel of a movement to bring (a very specific) religion back to the classroom.

You make common cause with this crowd at great peril if your goal is the expansion of knowledge.
 

steve knight

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Even an elective class can't have preaching. That's against the constitution. The big thing is how can you supposedly teach morals while lying about what you are going to congress?
 

jnpy!$4g3cwk

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Feb 11, 2010
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On a purely intellectual level, I agree. Teaching the Bible as literature, or an elective whatever, along with exposing kids to various other holy book electives, would be wonderful.
Except that they made it clear is that this is not an objective, historical course at all, but rather an indoctrination into Fundamentalist Authoritarianism. As such it has no place whatsoever in a government school or any other government institution.
 

mactastic

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Except that they made it clear is that this is not an objective, historical course at all, but rather an indoctrination into Fundamentalist Authoritarianism. As such it has no place whatsoever in a government school or any other government institution.
I think that's what I said next. :D
 

Michael Goff

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I had an elective class that discussed world religions in high school. No one was up in arms over it at the time.

Why?

One key word.....
There is a difference and you know it. A world religion class teaches about the history of religion. It doesn't just preach one religion.
 

Michael Goff

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Ours spent was about half non-Christian and half-Christian.

In other words, it was pretty well Christian-based.
Well then, I have a problem with that as well.

A true world religion class doesn't cater to one religion, it looks at the effect of religion period on history.
 

gsugolfer

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Jul 11, 2010
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Well then, I have a problem with that as well.

A true world religion class doesn't cater to one religion, it looks at the effect of religion period on history.
To each his own. I prefer leaving personal responsibility up to each individual.

Even our class, which was organized as I described, was properly disclosed so that you knew what you were getting into when you signed up. Now, if it wasn't - that's something I wouldn't support.
 

thekev

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To each his own. I prefer leaving personal responsibility up to each individual.

Even our class, which was organized as I described, was properly disclosed so that you knew what you were getting into when you signed up. Now, if it wasn't - that's something I wouldn't support.
When it falls in the realm of public education, it's reasonable to scrutinize what should be funded rather than just left up to the student who will or will not sign up for the course.
 

Southern Dad

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But what about the students who want to take these classes? There are students, not all of them Christian that want to take these classes. There are other religious study classes offered at schools.
 

steve knight

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the thing is they claimed it would be secular but in fact it is just a class to convert kids. that is against the separation of church and state and they lied about their intentions to congress. So really would you trust a christian who lies about what they are going to teach so they can teach it? how can you learn morals from someone that does not even have the morals they are supposed to be teaching?
 

Huntn

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A high school curriculum supported by Hobby Lobby chain president Steve Green, billed as a way to teach archaeology, history and the arts through Bible stories, also tells students God is always there in times of trouble and that sinners must "suffer the consequences" of disobeying.
Oh, ****.

I dislike Christians pushing their beliefs onto others but I agree with Southern Dad in questioning why this is a big deal. It's an elective course. It doesn't matter that they intend to eventually make it mandatory; as long as it's an elective course it doesn't matter. If and when they try to make it mandatory, then we'll have a problem worth discussing.
Fables have no place in our education system as science. If they want to preach this stuff, keep it in church school.

I'm sure these people would have no problem with an elective course in Wicca or Islam?
Lol, as I imagine that. Total hypocrites.
 
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Huntn

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Well, that would be most of the books I read in school, such as "Romeo & Juliet"... :eek:


:rolleyes:
I will clarify, Romeo & Juliet and fables have no place being taught in any science class. Do you agree? :p If someone wants to get educated on religion, go to Sunday school or a church school. Or find a course on religion in general. This is just another attempt to elevate not the general idea of theism, but to equate a specific religion, Christianity with science, as if it better than other religions, blatant proselytizing.
 
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Southern Dad

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By keeping religion separate from schools are we not telling people that it is above schools? When a book was banned here in many Georgia school districts (Harry Potter) there was a rush on bookstores in the area. It piqued the curiosity and did more for sales than any advertising campaign could have done.
 

Ledgem

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Fables have no place in our education system as science. If they want to preach this stuff, keep it in church school.
I agree, but I think it's important to stick to what's being proposed. Just because the guy behind this has some wild fantasy about public schools teaching everything through the lens of the Christian Bible doesn't mean that is what's being proposed. I disagree with his overall goal, but I don't have any issues with an elective course(s) on Christianity.