So Long Elephants, Nice Knowing You...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Huntn, Mar 4, 2014.

  1. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #1
    ... but we need your ivory and don't give a damn if you're still around or not. These are the actions of people. Is it fair to ask what is wrong with us?

    Heard a report on PBS this morning which prompted me to pull up this:
    African Forest Elephants Are Being Massacred Into Extinction- fueled largely by U.S. demand?? (Jan 2014)

    Elephants extinct within 12 years. (2013)

    Apparently in the 1980s the population of elephants dropped from 1.5 million to 600k. About 36,000 elephants in Africa were slaughtered last year despite a ban on ivory. WWF estimates todays total African Elephant population at 400-700k.
     
  2. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    #2
    In the modern work, it's utterly insane that people still want lion testicles, ivory, and rhino horn.

    Most of the demand for such goods is coming out of Asia though, and China is increasingly taking over large parts of Africa through investments.
     
  3. chabig macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    #3
    Let's revisit this in 2025. I will bet that elephants won't be extinct.
     
  4. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Location:
    Sunny, Southern California
    #4
    Some of the pictures I have seen regarding the rhino horn's is disgusting.

    I hope for our sake we stop all the above. Ugh.
     
  5. ebow macrumors 6502a

    ebow

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2001
    Location:
    Trapped in a world before later on
    #5
    What about using UAVs to hunt the poachers? Hmm...
     
  6. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    #6
    China will make it harder to stop poaching, not easier.

    Given the sheer size of Africa and the resources needed to patrol it, the best we can do in the USA is collect and preserve the DNA of near extinct animals and leave it to future western generations to find a real solution.
     
  7. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #7
    Meaning that human beings will see the errors of their ways and stop consuming ivory?
     
  8. chabig macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    #8
    Meaning that elephants won't be extinct.
     
  9. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Location:
    the faraway towns
    #9
    Are you referring to zoos and breeding programs, or is there some other reason that elephants may remain?
     
  10. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #10
    What would be that reason , based on some data or are you just expressing a feeling from your heart? :p
     
  11. chabig macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    #11
    It's just a hunch. Elephants won't be extinct. They will still live in the wild. The sun will rise in the east. The oceans will not have evaporated.
     
  12. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #12
    Lol, ok, if you say so, it must be.
    If you need some education 10000 species go extinct each year. Why should elephants be one of them? They are so big and tough. :rolleyes:
     
  13. chabig macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    #13
    There are too many "ifs" in that article to make any conclusion about how many species go extinct. Nor is extinction necessarily a bad thing. We should expect species to become extinct due to natural selection. In fact, new species are created all the time due to evolution and natural selection. Furthermore, keep in mind that only man defines what a "species" is. It's an invented classification. Nature doesn't identify creatures by "species". Want to lower the number of species extinctions--broaden the definition of a species. Want to increase the number of species extinctions--tighten the definition. Let's classify all red-haired humans between 68-71 inches tall and weighing between 189-210 lbs as a species. Do the same for all combinations of hair color, heat, and weight. See how many human "species" you get? Do the same thing with all creatures and think how many you get, and how many of those "species" go extinct.
     
  14. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #14
    I believe most scientists and philosopers would labels man's greed for certain goods for ornamental purposes or imagined health benefits at the expense of a species outside of the realm of natural selection. If we want to kill all the elephants, that is our choice to do so, or by inaction allow it to happen.

    Where are you coming from? Do something or Que Sera Sera?
     
  15. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Location:
    Flea Bottom, King's Landing
    #15
    Never gonna happen. There's no oil money to be made in protecting elephants.:rolleyes: It should be obvious by now that the US Gub'ment only cares about oil, oil and more oil.
     
  16. mobilehaathi macrumors G3

    mobilehaathi

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Location:
    The Anthropocene
    #16
    Specious, glib, disingenuous, ignorant.
     
  17. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #17
    I'm guessing taxonomy isn't your strong suit.
     
  18. alent1234 macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    #18
    i've read a lot of elephants are being born now with no tusks, and so aren't being hunted
     
  19. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #19
    But we aren't talking about natural selection ... unless you'd like to include poaching under that category.

    Is that your intent?

    Please clarify. Thank you.
     
  20. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #20
    This may be a great example of accelerated evolution, which besides genetic mutation, the genes that remain (short tusked elephants) are the ones that are carried forward. Not an example of natural selection, but human selection.
     
  21. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Location:
    the faraway towns
    #21
    That's a mighty fine theory.
     
  22. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Location:
    The Mergui Archipelago
    #22
    Can you breed with a llama?
     
  23. CalWizrd Suspended

    CalWizrd

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Location:
    NYC/Raleigh, NC
    #23
    I hate when I agree with you. It makes me feel like the stars are out of alignment.
     
  24. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Location:
    The Mergui Archipelago
    #24
    haha likewise :D!
     
  25. vrDrew macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Location:
    Midlife, Midwest
    #25
    The are large numbers of Afrcan elephants in captivity, not just in zoos, but in private game parks. The population of captive elephants is large enough, and genetically diverse enough, that should wild elephants be truly faced with extinction, it would be feasible to rebuild the population.

    That, obviously, would be a less-than-optimal solution. The best solution would be African nations and peoples to establish and protect sufficient habitat for them to continue as a wild species. And for that to happen, Elephants have to become more valuable as living, walking, foraging animals than as dead carcasses from which poachers can hack tusks.

    The worldwide ban on ivory trade has been an abject failure. It simply has increased the price of ivory to the point that it creates a huge incentive to kill and harvest ivory. Far better to legalize - and tightly control - the trade, using responsibly sourced supplies from natural deaths, deaths in captivity, managed culls, etc.

    Simply hoping that Chinese are suddenly going to give up a couple of thousand years of tradition (no matter how ghoulish it might seem to us) is unrealistic.
     

Share This Page