So we do have "boots on the ground" in Iraq after all

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by aaronvan, Mar 23, 2016.

  1. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #1
    Obama lied again. What a surprise. Where is Code Pink? Where is the anti-war Left? Missing in action...again.

     
  2. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #2
    Of course we do they never left they just shrunk to minimal I can't believe you didn't know this, or is this just the DDD
     
  3. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    #3
    The US government has been open about having people there acting as a liaison with the Peshmerga (Iraqi Kurd army) and the YPG (Syrian Kurd army) to coordinate airstrikes against ISIS, and also to train them with modern weapon systems. It's not a secret.
    Having military advisors != having boots on ground. There's a difference

    Unless you really want to do nothing at all, and wait until ISIS becomes very powerful, and then blame Obama for not doing having done anything to stop them.
     
  4. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #4
    Those advisors boot's don't touch the ground?

    They are advisors they carry weapons and go on missions they are boots on the ground.
     
  5. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #5
    Correct. These are not SF advisors; this a battalion of Marine artillery, i.e. conventional forces (just the pointy end of the spear; there is a massive logistical tail behind them.)
     
  6. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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  7. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    Do you expect the airstrikes to just bomb houses at random? Or do you want professionally trained soldiers supervising that what the Peshmergas say is actually accurate, and transmitting the info upwards?

    For me, morally, I draw the line at infantry participating actively in offensives as foot soldiers (i.e.: "fighting"). If they were just a few soldiers teaching Peshmergas how to use TOWs (or whatever they were doing there) and they were ambushed by ISIS, it would be within limits of what they said.
     
  8. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #9
    There are members of U.S. and other countries special forces operating in Iraq and Syria.Remember the ambassador killed in Libya and the CIA safe houses? The interesting thing is both the U.S. and Russia have forward spotters entrenched with the YPG/J and people think they are not co-operating.
     
  9. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #10
    You oppose infantry boots on the ground yet you are fine with artillery. Interesting. And what do the Peshmerga have to do with Mosul?
     
  10. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    #11
    Maybe they wear sneakers. Or tactical Crocs. Don't be literal, ISIS has captured a whole lot of US military equipment. If you want the Iraqi army to stand a chance and not lose the rest of the country, they'll need at least the same equipment, and training.

    The good news is, ISIS has been on a downward trajectory since the battle of Kobane, and now it's just a matter of time before they are defeated. Of course, Syria will still have to find a way to overthrow the dictator they had before, and he'll probably spend the next decades jumping from a lavish Dacha by the Black Sea to shopping sprees in Moscow.
     
  11. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #12
    I actually don't want them to leave and I'd like to send more 8000-10000 now beats the heck out of 120,000 in a couple years
     
  12. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #13
    Why send any? We had nearly 200,000 troops in Iraq at the peak of OIF and it was an utter failure. Why would it be any different in the future.

    On Saturday morning Marine Staff Sgt. Louis Cardin, a 27-year old artilleryman, was killed by a ISIS rocket attack.

    What did he die for?
     
  13. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #14
    It won't be but we'll be back there before the decade is out.
     
  14. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #15
    I really can't believe you've just figured out that our military is not taking the actions they claim to be. You're only....50(?) years late to the party?
     
  15. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #16
    Well, if I'm to believe many posters in PRSI, mah freedumbs.
     
  16. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    #17
    I wouldn't oppose infantry boots on ground, but it's what was decided by the administration, so that's what there is. I do understand the reasons: Obama doesn't want to get tangled in another war, and wants to avoid hundreds or thousands of dead americans, so in that regard, it makes sense to limit support to airstrikes. I think they should bring more well equipped SF to eradicate ISIS faster instead of letting non-professional 20yo soldiers fight with old AKs, but my opinion doesn't matter.

    It's complicated, after the cluster**** Bush made in Iraq, but here's my small attempt at explaining it: by putting a Shia in charge, he alienated the largely Sunni/Ba'athist (i.e.: close to Hussein) experienced army commanders. This created a void, and when ISIS invaded Iraq in a blitzkrieg, they faced an army that was lacking experience, and wasn't exactly willing to die for a government they hated. As a result, Mosul fell in less than a week*, and has been in ISIS' hands for a year and a half.
    Back to your question, right now the US relies mostly on the Kurdish forces to exterminate ISIS (YPG in Syria, Peshmerga in Iraq). Mosul being in Iraq -and despite not being technically in Iraqi Kurdistan- the Peshmerga are the ones who started the offensive to retake it, earlier this year.

    *The Iraqi Army had 30000 people stationed there. ISIS had 1000-2000 people. Let that sink in.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 23, 2016 ---
    It was a failure because it was mismanaged, because they were there for the wrong reasons. Had they had the desire to do things right instead of just creating military expenditure to funnel the taxpayers' money to Halliburton, Lockheed, and co, they would have managed all that very differently, being sensible to reality, instead of expecting people to bow to the Sound of Freedom©.

    The US voted for a moron and his jingo CEO advisors, what did you expected?
    --- Post Merged, Mar 23, 2016 ---
    Is that a question? I know that, I don't know what to reply... :)
    --- Post Merged, Mar 23, 2016 ---
    Indeed.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 23, 2016 ---
    Here's a good (and very funny) primer to modern Iraq, from the always brilliant Tim Urban:
    http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/09/muhammad-isis-iraqs-full-story.html
     
  17. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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  18. Jess13 Suspended

    Jess13

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    #19

    You shouldn’t insult Code Pink, they’re among the realest of the real liberals you could find and have been relentless in their public opposition to Obama administration crimes and war crimes.
     
  19. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #20
    Obama, the continuation of corporate/empire administrations dating back nearly 100 years....
    --- Post Merged, Mar 23, 2016 ---
    Very true, one of the few groups that calls a war crime a war crime regardless of the party in office.
     
  20. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #21
    Code pink is out there IIRC, they are simply not getting the media attention since the lefty networks will not dare show Obama for what he is.
     
  21. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #22
    Asking where they are isn't an insult.

    Ah, that makes sense except my liberal friends tell me that the MSM are all right-wing corporatists.
     
  22. Jess13 Suspended

    Jess13

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  23. Robisan macrumors 6502

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    #24
    Can't imagine why any details about Marine deployments (for whatever purpose) would be kept secret ... but ZOMG!!$@!! if such information was on Clinton's email server then TREASON!!$@!! because absolutely this secrecy must be imperative, harumph, harumph...
     
  24. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #25
    Corporatism being rightward leaning by definition, yes they are correct. I think JK didn't place " " around the lefty station remarks.

    MSNBC is supposedly left leaning, but since they got their new VP you'd be hard pressed to find a channel that has more republicans on it all the time.
     

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