Social Security's looming $32 trillion shortfall

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, Aug 9, 2016.

  1. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #1
    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/08/social-securitys-looming-32-trillion-shortfall.html?_source=facebook
    not pretty, so what to do about this mess?
     
  2. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #2
  3. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #3
  4. thermodynamic Suspended

    thermodynamic

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    #4
    Stop borrowing money from it? Wasn't it supposed to be a lock box?

    With all the market crashes over the years, few will say and fewer will be convinced in saying how 401k is a sound replacement.

    Okay, maybe people can work. To assist, why not stop automating jobs with technology or offshoring? Give tax breaks and taxpyer-funded subsidies to companies that server our population as opposed to being entitled to a tax cut or corporate welfare regardless of what they do?

    The media loves to report higher profits than ever yet wages stagnating. Even more since the great recession started. Would an answer be found in that scenario, somewhere? The claimed "trickle down supply side free market" doesn't seem to be trickling down as much as it used to...
    --- Post Merged, Aug 9, 2016 ---
    The cap is there for surprisingly good reasons. Removing it leads to obvious arguments where people don't understand the bigger picture, and would get all squirmy and upset if they did figure it out, even if they were the ones benefiting more. Heck, boomers retiring often bitch and moan about their parents getting social security freebies they never paid for (and missing the point, unless they had a bigger point they forgot to share, probably involving net worth - something that has clearly not changed for the better side 1980 or so, depending on graph and stats)...
     
  5. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #5
  6. LizKat, Aug 9, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2016

    LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #6
    I dunno, but considering I was perfectly willing to not have the cap on FICA withholding, I don't want to hear it when they come to me a couple years down the road now saying oh we're going to cut your benefits because this thing isn't funded properly. They had at least 20 years they could have asked me to kick in more.

    But in case they do cut my benefits, that's what my swell day to day savings account with .0002375 and change interest is for. And my IRA, which I did manage to mess around with enough after the crash to restore all the dive and then some that my friends Jamie and LLoyd and their pals had laid in there for awhile. Thing is, not everyone has had the pay to be able to set aside something besides what Social Security will provide.

    I say we take it out of my friends' pockets. Oh here come Jamie and LLoyd now...

    JamieAndLloyd.jpg


     
  7. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #7
    why should YOU kick in more when THEY are the ones borrowing & wasting it?
     
  8. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #8
    Why did they put a cap on taking out of our pay anyway?
     
  9. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #9
  10. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #10
    BOTH candidates from the MAJOR parties are freaking idiots
     
  11. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #11
    that doesn't change the fact that they're both going to be borrowing to keep the senior vote happy
     
  12. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

    TonyC28

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    #12
    Get a job working for a railroad. No social security. Totally private and totally funded for many years to come.
     
  13. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #13
    This has been an issue with the program since its inception with blame assigned to both Parties. I'm so disgusted how such a good idea would be undermined by politicians.
     
  14. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #14
  15. Robisan macrumors 6502

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    #15
    Looks just fine and is not a mess.

    Projections 20 years out are very unreliable. Hell, even 5 year projections have a high variance to actual outcomes. Even accepting the projections, very modest changes in the funding, such as raising the cap on income subject to SSI taxation (or at least indexing the cap with inflation) would put SSI in the black for the rest of the century.

    There is no reason to make changes now to solve a supposed problem that won't occur (and may never occur) 20 years from now. Period.

    ...adding, SSI is insurance, not a ponzi scheme. People who say otherwise have no idea what a ponzi scheme is.

    ...adding x2, SS Trust Fund is invested in government bonds backed by the Full Faith and Credit of the federal government. If not put there, where should it be put? Should the government buy a giant ****ing mattress and stuff the money in there? Or a giant piggy bank? And take trillions of dollars out of economic circulation?
     
  16. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #16
    Yeah we're probably going to hear more from the squirmy and upset whenever we finally get down to talking about how to patch the thing up. We've spent decades declaring it too hot to discuss, while it has simmered away on the back burner watching for the boomers to come in the back door looking for dinner.

    We've also known the boomers are a) many and b) likely to live longer than back in the day.

    Anyway I'm at y'all's mercy now unless you want me to come back and take your job. The Inuit I think it was used to put their elders on an iceberg with a freshly killed fat seal or tuna and give the berg a shove...

    Today the Republicans would prefer to give me a voucher for healthcare in lieu of Medicare, and (whisking me back to my 20s) a privatized sort of 401k variant of social security saving-up-for.

    If they mean to go forward with that, they better teach some healthy living 101, arithmetic 101 and household budgeting 101 before they go down that road.

    The thing about vouchers instead of Medicare is ludicrous and a wrong-way run back to the middlemen of insurance companies. The thing about privatizing Social Security is also ludicrous. These are grabs for the brass ring by the "investment" sector. How ****ing stupid does Congress think we are anyway.

    It's pretty funny (not) that Congress has written laws that ride herd on industry meeting its pension funding obligations, and occasionally the law ships some miscreant off to the pokey.

    Meanwhile the lack of any actual lockbox on Social Security is fine, but only if we understand that the IOUs are valid and must be honored when presented.

    Congress says trust me, we don't need a locked box. Okay, fine. So then if they borrowed to fund a war or a birthday present for their mother in law, what do I care. The IOU says they owe the money to Social Security. Period. Full faith obligation. Great. So now pay up. I don't care how you do that either. Print money if you dare. Stay home from the next war over oil.

    All this hand wringing over "oh the borrowing! the trillions of ****ing borrowing!!" doesn't happen when the borrowing is done for this or that corporate welfare or ME war needs a lift. It happens when people who have paid into the system actually retire and are supposed to receive benefits. At that point Congress talks about how the borrowing can't go on.

    That is all wrong, in addition to not even being what Congress means. What they mean is the underlying principles of the funding have now become inadequate because parameters in the calculation, like workforce size and longevity, have changed. And, not coincidentally (and indeed more to the actual concerns of the Congress), the unlocked box therefore won't afford such easy pickings for the next war or corporate welfare project.
     
  17. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #17
    Surprise, it only took 7 minutes for someone to blame the GOP. Someone musta been asleep at the keyboard to allow a post to age 7 minutes without being blamed on the GOP.

    <Sarcasm on>
    I'm even more surprised that a socialist program didn't work. Next thing you know, Cuba and Venezuela will be having economic troubles.

    Quick, someone ask Obama how to fix it, he's great at fixing economic stuff.

    <Sarcasm off>

    At best, we'll have to do things like means testing and borrow our way out. As sad as it is, we'll have to come to terms that people that don't need it aren't going to be able to collect.

    The other issue is that we need more meaningful job growth as well as a cut back in other areas. Maybe we can cut some of those tanks and bombs out of the budget.

    Federal pensions and pay for federal employees exceed private pay and benefits.

    Worst case, just let the whole system fail, we're too deep in debt and the system is too corrupt to fix it. Have all the capitalist leave and let the Lefties turn everything into Detroit.
     
  18. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #18
    Sounds like we need to reform entitlements. Cutting end of life care on Medicare would be a good start, as would raising the retirement age to match life expectancy.
     
  19. Robisan macrumors 6502

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    #19
    Why? Because of a supposed problem that may or may not occur twenty years from now and can be easily remedied then if it does occur? There is no problem to solve now.
     
  20. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #20
    I just wanted to point out that the solution to the "IOU's" problem in the past was to remove the US from the gold standard. The same thing happened when Rome failed. The "money" wasn't backed by anything other than a promise, no gold, no silver, that allows them to print as much as they want.
     
  21. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #21
    It's good to let people who want to retire early to plan when their pension will be available.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 9, 2016 ---
    Gold isn't intrinsically worth anything.
     
  22. 1458279 Suspended

    1458279

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    #22
    The value of gold isn't so much that it has so many uses, it's more that it can't be printed. There's some limited amount of it and it generally takes an amount of work to increase the supply.

    This is part of the theory behind things like BitCoin. You can't (in theory) create a BitCoin without doing a certain amount of work, therefore it has a limit. I'm not suggesting BitCoin is either good or bad, just point out that making something hard to increase the supply of, makes it a better choice over something that can be printed at will.
     
  23. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #23
    The cap on income should be raised from $118,000 to $500,000. The retirement age should be raised at least a year or two. They also have to get tough and crack down on who is afforded disability at age 45. I don't know how many patients I've seen in their 40's and 50's on Medicare and collecting SSA and I'm scratching my head as to what exactly is wrong with them.
     
  24. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #24
    Now some heirloom tomato seeds, on the other hand, or a handful of seed corn...
     
  25. oneMadRssn macrumors 68040

    oneMadRssn

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    #25
    We don't agree on much, but I think we agree on this. Social security should be either done away with, or majorly reconfigured.

    Personally, I'm perfectly ok with having some portion of my taxes going towards social assistance to the poor or disabled or whatever. I am not ok with a system that tells me it's saving money on my behalf for me, but actually does a whole lot more with it. It's dishonest at best. If it really is for me, then let me decide how to invest it or how to spend it. The way it is now is like a forced low-interest long-term loan to an investment firm that is particularly terrible at managing assets.
     

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