Socialism and the HDI

Tower-Union

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 6, 2009
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Some of you may or may not be familiar with the Human Development Index (HDI). Basically its a scale used to chart life expectancy, literacy, education and standards of living for countries worldwide and give them a score based on these factors, put together by the UN.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index#Very_high_human_development_.28developed_countries.29

Over the past decade or so the top performers have ROUTINELY been the socialist countries. So I'm curious, why is it that I hear people screaming about how Obama is a socialist and trying to "ruin" the USA with Socialism. Seems to me a touch of socialism would help pull you in the right direction.

Also, lets be VERY clear here. . . Obama (or any other democrat) has never proposed anything even CLOSE to true socialism, so lets try to avoid gross hyperbole in this discussion shall we?
 

pooky

macrumors 6502
Jun 2, 2003
356
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That's a softball. Of course a metric created by the UN is going to promote socialism. The UN is nothing but a socialist front run by the New World Order in pursuit of true World Government. They will do anything to hide the evils of socialism and put the blinders on the masses so that they are complacent as every aspect of their lives are eventually controlled. It's all perfectly clear. It's already worked on Europe. They're too far gone already. But they won't overcome American Exceptionalism. We are far too smart and proud a people to fall for this, despite people like B. Hussein Obama and Bill Clinton's wife working to push us there. There will be a reckoning.

Oh, and they eat babies.

We all pray for the day when Sarah Palin saves us from these bastards.

</crazy>
 

IntheNet

macrumors regular
Oct 6, 2009
190
0
Some of you may or may not be familiar with the Human Development Index (HDI). Basically its a scale used to chart life expectancy, literacy, education and standards of living for countries worldwide and give them a score based on these factors, put together by the UN.
Thanks for the thread... interesting concept this HDI... I read at the Wiki link on its development: "The index was developed in 1990 by Pakistani economist Mahbub ul Haq and Indian economist Amartya Sen," and that a Scandinavian nation holds the top spot in very high HDI development (Norway). However, if you look at where immigration lies among developing nations, in is not Norway, Pakistan, or India that have high immigration rates but instead countries and nations with relatively low HDI. So while HDI measure well-being, it does not reflect chosen paths for immigrants, which seems a far better standard for assessing a nation's development, which reflects freedom being a immigration path - a push back against socialist nations.

...Of course a metric created by the UN is going to promote socialism...
I was going to suggest that myself; the United Nations not being a freedom-loving entity based on its genesis.
 

skunk

macrumors G4
Jun 29, 2002
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Thanks for the thread... interesting concept this HDI... I read at the Wiki link on its development: "The index was developed in 1990 by Pakistani economist Mahbub ul Haq and Indian economist Amartya Sen," and that a Scandinavian nation holds the top spot in very high HDI development (Norway). However, if you look at where immigration lies among developing nations, in is not Norway, Pakistan, or India that have high immigration rates but instead countries and nations with relatively low HDI. So while HDI measure well-being, it does not reflect chosen paths for immigrants, which seems a far better standard for assessing a nation's development, which reflects freedom being a immigration path - a push back against socialist nations.
That must rank as the most pathetic piece of rationalisation I have seen. If that garbage is the best you can come up with, I suggest you keep quiet about it.

"Comedy gold", as rdowns would say.
 

flopticalcube

macrumors G4
As much as I see the HDI as at best a flawed measure, it does correlate well with the Forbes list of happiest countries. Hardly an organ of socialist propaganda. I don't see any correlation (positive or negative) between HDI and immigration. Pakistan and India are both low on the HDI so I don't get what you are driving at with that remark except maybe to obfuscate the argument.
 

Queso

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Mar 4, 2006
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According to the latest statistics 10.6% of the Norwegian population is of immigrant origin. Not that far behind the USA's 12%, and far in excess of the UK's 7.9%.
 

Ugg

macrumors 68000
Apr 7, 2003
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Penryn
According to the latest statistics 10.6% of the Norwegian population is of immigrant origin. Not that far behind the USA's 12%, and far in excess of the UK's 7.9%.
It's amazing how ITN uses tired, old, republican talking points without doing any real research of his own. Talk about wearing blinders.
 

Queso

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Mar 4, 2006
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It's amazing how ITN uses tired, old, republican talking points without doing any real research of his own. Talk about wearing blinders.
It's the tired old spin-spin-and-spin-again tactic and IntheNet has been trained in its use. Either because he's previously organised campaigns for GOP candidates or he's involved with lobbying companies or organisations. Considering his "northern Virginia" location (i.e. within spitting distance of DC) my money is on the latter.
 

Ugg

macrumors 68000
Apr 7, 2003
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Didn't you get the memo? Social Democrat now = Socialist (soon to be Communist). Right Wing = White Hat wearing good guy (with a big white smile).
Yep, the spinboys have been busy here in the good ole USA. Anything to the left of Attila the Hun is now socialist.
 

Tower-Union

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 6, 2009
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I must have been infected with some left leaning virus or something, but I don't see any socialist countries on that list. Social Democrat-leaning, yes, but no socialists.
It could be that the great Canadian education system has failed me, but we were always taught that places like Norway, Sweden, etc. were "Socialist" countries. Employing high taxes and cradle to grave philosophy. If these countries aren't socialist who would you say IS? I'm not picking a fight, just curious what you define as "socialist".
 

Tower-Union

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 6, 2009
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ITN I actually wanted to ask you something, hopefully your still reading this thread.

In a previous thread you declared yourself, politically, to be a "moderate" and then seem to have abandoned the thread, so I'm going to ask you here. Were you being serious with that statement or tongue in cheek? If the latter I completely understand, but if you were serious I'd like to hear you rationalize your statement, if you are a moderate who would you consider to be to the right of you, and for what reasons?
 

Ugg

macrumors 68000
Apr 7, 2003
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It could be that the great Canadian education system has failed me, but we were always taught that places like Norway, Sweden, etc. were "Socialist" countries. Employing high taxes and cradle to grave philosophy. If these countries aren't socialist who would you say IS? I'm not picking a fight, just curious what you define as "socialist".
How long ago did you learn this? Things change over time and while I believe that Sweden does have high taxes, its economy has also shifted over time to a more capitalistic one.

The proper term of course is "Social Democracy" Socialist countries generally aren't very democratic.
 

Tower-Union

macrumors 6502
Original poster
May 6, 2009
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That would be in 2002 and 2003 (grades 11 and 12). I think the teacher was largely trying to emphasise the idea of a sliding scale.

ie USA at the far right, Canada more left, sweden further left, and Russia/China at the far left.
 

flopticalcube

macrumors G4
That would be in 2002 and 2003 (grades 11 and 12). I think the teacher was largely trying to emphasise the idea of a sliding scale.

ie USA at the far right, Canada more left, sweden further left, and Russia/China at the far left.
Russians are more like fascists now. Not much similarity to China. Then again, China doesn't look like a far left country by the standard definition anymore either. Maybe North Korea.
 

Chundles

macrumors G4
Jul 4, 2005
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I often find it strange that many folks from the USA see these countries as "socialist" whereas we see them as democracies.
 

Chundles

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Jul 4, 2005
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What do you guys consider the USA to be ?
Oh, don't get me wrong, still a democracy but less "friendly" as it were. Maybe friendly is the wrong word but there's an air of cut-throat do-or-die about the place rather than what we call the "level playing field" where we're all trying to make sure everyone has equal opportunities but that doesn't wash when people start from decidedly different starting points.